This IMO is the biggest benefit, MLS reserves in USLPRO should allow the league to finally go regional and split into multiple conferences and save teams some money from their traveling budget (I guess that did not work out this year, but maybe 2014). I am actually surprised Tijuana has not done this in NPSL/PDL or maybe USLPRO
So if you were a entry-level MLS player and you were brought down to D3, which is a downgrade, why wouldn't you opt out of the contract and sign with NASL? Does anybody have stats in hockey which players get better development ones in AHL or ones that play in Euro leagues with pro/rel? and i still don't understand how players will be better playing in USL instead of playing in NASL?
where do you get those numbers? Transfer fees are not disclosed: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/north-american-soccer-league/startseite/wettbewerb_USA2.html Here is a player SA just signed, his market value went down so they picked him up, the question is for how much and what are is wages? http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/edin-husic/mwverlaufgraph/spieler_28587.html
I was pointing out why you wouldn't leave an MLS minimum salary for NASL. I think MLS minimum is around 40 k. Most players in NASL would be happy to make 39,999.
I just watched a documentary called Full Color Football: The History of the American Football League. I would love to see NASL become to MLS what the AFL was to the NFL. I could see where NASL could challenge MLS if MLS deal with USL-Pro were to start hurting NASL. With single entity players can't move club to club freely. Also MLS clubs have to have League approval to sell players. I think if your NASL you have to say to young players coming up that if you have dreams of playing in Europe then you have to decide which route you wanna go. Then point out the Brek Shea incident. Another thing is you have to sell to potential Owners that if you join our league you can have complete control of your club and offers on players of your club vs having to get approval. You also can ask them this "Would the NFL be where it is today if it weren't for the AFL." Its a very hard sell but not completely impossible.
Difficult to debate such an obtuse response, but here goes. Gee. First, you have a contract. Second, you are still a MLS player getting paid MLS money. Third, the technical staff from your MLS employer can keep tabs on your progress and bring you back up at some point. Could you really, seriously, give the pro/rel crap a rest? It is so tiresome to read this crap in EVERY thread you post in. Looking past your smokescreen and answering your loaded question: the AHL is the primary developmental tool that the NHL uses. Players who end up in Europe are players that refuse to sign with a NHL club. Of course you don't understand. You refuse to listen to common sense and unbiased facts. The MLS-USL partnership will allow MLS teams to develop fringe players in an environment where they have input and ability to monitor progress more efficiently than scattering them with different teams. The players benefit from getting better competition than the MLS reserve league offered. The standard of play is very similar in the NASL and the USL Pro. If given a choice a player is going to sign with MLS and be loaned out to the USL affiliate rather than get less money and play for and NASL club.
13:00 Discussions about USL/MLS http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack/2013/01/28/the-counter-attack-podcast—episode-2/
Pat Ercoli made reference to it in one of his interviews, I'll see if I can dig it. Once again, this is an AFFILIATION, not a farm team system. MLS teams can call up USL-Pro signed players, but do not have priority over them. Both sides have to agree, and the USL affiliate has the final call. There is no loss of independence or control for the USL teams. Please comprehend those sentences and let them penetrate.
So it's a farm/developmental league. "Starting this year, MLS clubs will be permitted to sign affiliation agreements with USL Pro teams similar to those common in pro baseball and hockey. Affiliation is not, and likely never will be, mandatory and four partnerships will be in place in 2013." "Those relationships will be unlike just about any other in pro sports. In Europe and South America, most soccer clubs own and operate reserve teams that compete either in separate leagues, or in lower tiers of the same pyramid. In North American hockey and baseball, NHL and MLB franchises often stock the vast majority of a minor league affiliate’s roster and even select the coaches. In MLS and USL Pro, the extent to which partners choose to cooperate on rosters, tactics and playing style, front office staff, marketing, loan terms or even the call-up of USL players to MLS squads, will be left up to the individual organizations". http://www.nj.com/redbulls/index.ssf/2013/01/mls_usl_partnership_integral_to_rise_of_pro_game.html So basically those USL Pro owners who don't have deep pockets, will be more than willing to allow MLS affiliates total control over their team.
That second paragraph makes it clearer that while at the start of this agreement D3 USL Pro isn't fully a Farm/Development league for MLS with only 4 or 5 reserve/development players going to each affiliate it is likely/possible that in the future it will become a full Farm/Development league in a similar style/system as NHL and Baseball. I could see lower and mid level teams cooperating more with the parent MLS teams, and having the parent teams fully stock the rosters and hire the coaches and such. A good deal for MLS and better than the former reserve league setup, good for D3 soccer as well with more stability.
Forget it. So you have been banned from trolling the USL forum, so you constantly troll on the NASL forum bashing the USL. We get it. If you don't have anything interesting to say about the NASL then keep the pro/rel admiration and the USL bashing elsewhere. Stop hijacking every freaking thread in this forum into an anti MLS, anti USL, and pro/rel will solve everything to the point of ad nauseum.
Sure. And the results might be pretty cool. I don't see it happening within the next five years, though; the money isn't there. To challenge the NFL, the AFL had to be big enough to be a meaningful competitor. If the NASL tried that right now, MLS would "win" the fight by ignoring it.
Because this isn't Europe. Players don't have the ability to "opt out" of contracts here. They can ask for a release, but if the team doesn't want to honor it, then they are stuck with the team. Any player that tries it would quickly find themselves black listed from playing professional soccer in the US. Because they will be getting significantly more playing time. The MLS reserve league currently has a 12 game season, while USL-Pro has at least double that. More playing time = more development time. Not only that, as mentioned earlier, they'll be getting paid more to play in USL-Pro than they would in NASL.
You seem to be confusing PDL with USL-Pro.. USL-Pro is a professional league, so no college kids. The players might be getting paid crap, but it isn't PDL.
Oh, not this again. The situations aren't even remotely alike. It is ridiculous to bring it up. And it is funny when people bring the AFL up, they conveniently ignore the USFL, XFL, WFL, UFL, AAFC, and WHA. All leagues that tried to compete with larger leagues and failed. Now let us run a comparison. -The AFL was started by owners who were either refused NFL franchises or were already minority owners of existing NFL franchises. Not the case with MLS who is actively expanding and have all their owners in check. There is a pathway to MLS. -The AFL had money behind it. Know that Lamar Hunt guy? And they had others like Ralph Wilson The NASL? Not so much. They don't have those owners. And don't even bring up the Cosmos. -The AFL started in major media markets like New York, Boston, Dallas, Los Angeles, Denver, Dallas, Houston, etc. The NASL? Not so much. MLS is already in the largest markets in North America outside of Atlanta and South Florida. And that is only a matter of time. -The AFL actively competed with the NFL from the start. They signed the majority of the NFL's 1960 draft class and and raided NFL clubs. The NASL? Not so much. They aren't stupid enough to compete with MLS. Their best players are MLS wash outs. -The AFL still would have died if it were not for television. They were able to get a TV deal with ABC and then a very lucrative one with NBC. That is what forced the merger. The NASL? Not so much. No tv deal. Forget a national interest. Most teams don't even have a local interest. And I could go on. Um, what? The NASL couldn't challenge MLS if it even wanted to. The MLS/USL deal has nothing to do with it. If the MLS/USL deal ends up hurting the NASL, then it is their own fault that didn't make a deal with MLS sooner. Players with European ambition are not going to bother with the NASL. U.S. players with European ambition bother with MLS because they know European clubs scout it, they can develop at a decent D1 level, have access to the U.S. Nats, and can make a decent salary. And they might not be ready to head abroad at a young age. And Brek Shea has nothing to do with anything. That is another topic. So? Are you also going to tell them they will lose lots of money without any sort of SUM check coming that helps cover the loses? That is the protective side of single entity. You aren't in it alone and some MLS teams are starting to turn a profit. Yeah, it took 15-17 years, but welcome to soccer in the U.S. Anyone buying a minor league soccer team as a toy or to seek glory is a complete idiot. And then they will counter with where is the USFL, XFL, and WHA today? And yes, it is almost impossible.
Transfermakrt is the last place you should go to find the market value and wages for small leagues like the NASL. According to them, Bryan Arguez has a market value of 400,000 U.S. which is more than most MLS players. Despite the fact he can't even make a MLS roster and his actual value might be more like 5,000. You've been told many times those numbers are made up for small leagues, yet you keep using them.
It's not completely impossible. My biggest issue is with USSF. USSF created these standards for D2 which i am for but have not stopped anyone from cheating the standards. Prime example is Orlando City. Orlando City stuck with USL-Pro because it didn't like the standards and then jump straight to MLS from USL-Pro. I just hope this don't lead to USL-Pro becoming the Defacto D2 while still ignoring D2 standards.
I bet Eclipse is regretting using Brek Shea as an example of things going wrong now. But seriously, even if Shea's transfer to Stoke really had died, they'd just have to point to Geoff Cameron, Stuart Holden, and yes even Robbie Findley and Edson Buddle. If you are an American and you have success in MLS, you'll get national team call-ups and with the attention the USMNT is getting from abroad, you'll probably get some sniffs from European teams. If you are an American and have success in NASL, all you are going to get is attention from MLS teams.
The problem is that if USL-Pro tried to meet the D2 standards a lot of their teams would seek to exist and it isn't just because the teams don't meet the standards, its that their owners can't afford to have them meet the standards. It will be interesting to see what happens to the independent teams in USL-Pro in the coming seasons. It sounds like the affiliate teams are getting a pretty good deal with a minimum of 4 players being loaned to them from the MLS teams and then once the MLS teams without a USL-Pro team near them start forming their own teams, it could be challenging for the independent teams to compete. *shrug* Who knows. Either way, NASL just needs to keep doing what they are doing and stop worrying about competing with MLS. There is plenty of room in this country for a well run, solid D2 league. NASL just needs to figure out the well run part and that takes time.
Maybe, maybe not, maybe the long term plan for MLS/SUM/USSF is a baseball system. We will see if NASL can survive if that is the plan.
I'm not sure how one would go about "cheating" standards such as financial viability and metropolitan market size. You either meet those or you don't. An organization in a city that meets those standards and chooses to go to D3 instead isn't cheating. Stating that Orlando didn't go D2 because "because it didn't like the standards" is rather dubious. I've read other such statements here many times such as the USL 'ran away from the standards', etc. I've never understood those as anything more than sour grapes. They could even cease to exist too . Sorry, couldn't resist! Your points were well taken. As for what the MLS/USL arrangement will mean for the NASL (getting back to the thread title), only time will tell. Agreed, they need to keep their focus on their own business.
Ironic that MLS is now getting criticized for being too much of a selling league. Cameron, Shea, Espinoza, and Kamara, have all used their MLS play to get into the EPL the past few months. And Simon Dawkins play with SJ just got him a job with Aston Villa. MLS has also moved a number of players into the Championship the past few years. And Najar was just sold(plus a sell-on fee) to a solid CL team. The last thing you can say is that MLS doesn't move players to high levels in Europe.