What does the MLS/USL affiliation mean for the NASL?

Discussion in 'NASL' started by Jossed, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. soccerFrank

    soccerFrank Member

    Dec 11, 2011
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Sounds like a "fair and balanced" take from the NASL commish......From all the interviews/reports with NASL top brass they've been nothing but classy in the way they respond to anything from the USL. And for the most part, USL has done the same, with the exception to always using their "best league under MLS" tagline.....they do what they have to do. Most of the mudslinging between the 2 leagues comes from fans on these boards (I admit I've been guilty in the past)......both leagues are doing what they feel is right for them, no right or wrong , just different approaches, and different ambitions. I think it will be better for the overall US soccer pyramid to have a solid D2 and D3 developmental league.
     
  2. mng146

    mng146 Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    I don't find his take fair and balanced or classy. Clueless is more like it. Statements like "What they’ve done here is create a developmental league, or more like baseball, a minor-league system." prove that. There's no developmental league being created, and USL-Pro is not becoming one with this arrangement. The comment "For us, we want excellent competition, and our priority is not to be a developmental league, but a league where you want to win.” didn't come across as classy to me.

    He felt the need to make public statements about an MLS/USL-Pro agreement so he could downplay it and pimp his own league in the process? Yup, real classy! :rolleyes:
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  3. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NASL top brass has always been classy, it's USL with the stupid tagline and of course comments by Pat Ercoli Rochester owner on Soccer sam...renegade league,etc.

    Remember we are not the ones cowering with our tails between our legs towards MLS.

    we never forget:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/usl-at-it-again.1948325/

    BTW found this comment by me Aug 12, 2012:



    WhiteStar Warriors said:
    I think it's great that fans are finally seeing what's going on because USL's president's endgame is to have all his clubs affiliated with MLS just like TripleA baseball is. Therefore messing up the work NASL has done so far in being a true D2 league with USSF standards. That's why they want ORL in MLS to do that. The only problem is ORL is not vetted like Montreal was. Montreal played in USLPro moved to NASL were at the "bottom" and they still got around 10k fans. Rawlins knows this that's why he is willing to let the smokescreen linger and they will never be in NASL.​


    Jossed says:​
    And your proof for this is...? You are the Ted Westervelt of minor league soccer.

     
  4. CHHSfan

    CHHSfan Member

    Oct 30, 2010
    Chapel Hill
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's the NASL spin-man. He has to find a way to turn this into a positive, and he stretched the truth to do so.
     
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  5. mng146

    mng146 Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    First, Pat Ercoli is the Rhinos team president. He's not the owner.

    Second, USL-Pro clubs are not affiliated "just like TripleA baseball is". Triple-A baseball teams have ALL of their players assigned and paid for by the parent club. The parent club also hires and pays for the Triple-A manager and all assistant coaches. The teams are in existence for the sole purpose of developing players for the parent club. A completely different type of affiliation.

    Third, you posted a link to a thread containing a post that started with "With the possibility of an official working relationship between MLS and the NASL", which you repped. I take it you missed that part? I guess it's okay when it's suggested for YOUR league huh? :whistling:
     
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  6. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well it depends on the relationship right?

    If USLPRO is 19 MLS Reserve teams and let’s say 21 Independent USL teams then your point is correct and actually is something that I would like to see (and more regional groups)

    Also, we will have to see how the loans for players will be structured, I think NASL wanted longer loans than what MLS wanted, I read that some of the players will be recallable and some may be on loan for longer periods of time.

    Recallable sounds like AAA, 3-6 month loans sounds more like what I would like to see happen.
     
  7. soccerFrank

    soccerFrank Member

    Dec 11, 2011
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Heres a link to what the affiliation means to the Rhinos.
    http://www.whec.com/sports/stories/S2906844.shtml?cat=571

    You could call it whatever you want (the affiliation) ....just don't say it if your the commish for the other league......its not classy to some folks if the guys just commenting on what it is;)
     
  8. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where do they get these writers? Do they need someone? That was horribly written.

    That being said, roflmao ya. Our commish calls a spade a spade and people want to cry foul about it? Get over it.
     
    Smoke & Mirrors repped this.
  9. soccersubjectively

    soccersubjectively BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 17, 2012
    Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "We don’t want to change course for our players, fans. For us, we want excellent competition, and our priority is not to be a developmental league, but a league where you want to win."

    Don't think USL Pro isn't trying to win anymore. Kinda silly to say that. = /
     
  10. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because those US Open Cup games against their "parent" teams will be so competitive ;)
     
  11. Bluesfan

    Bluesfan Member+

    DC United
    Aug 12, 2000
    Tampa
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Open Cup games already are almost meaningless unless you are one of a handful of clubs, so who cares if they are competitive. You are also clueless if you think Orlando is going to throw an Open Cup match if they end up playing SKC.
     
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  12. Bluesfan

    Bluesfan Member+

    DC United
    Aug 12, 2000
    Tampa
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Since everyone is caught up in this stupid pissing contest between the NASL and USL Pro, I will offer up some logical speculation as to what this means for the NASL.

    First, I think it will face increased competition for expansion markets from USL Pro. We will have to wait and see if the affiliation model is the one that most MLS clubs prefer long term. I suspect that it might be popular because of economics. If it does become more popular than full MLS reserve sides, then I can see the USL using that as a selling feature to prospective owners. Join USL and hook up with a MLS team. Also could see PDL clubs decide to move up as well. Yes, there will be owners who like the independence of the NASL, but the lure of MLS would be in USL membership.

    Second, the talent gap between the NASL and the USL Pro will shrink if not disolve. The gap isn't that big to begin with. For players, the path to MLS certainly would seem easier through the USL. You get to be scouted on a regular basis by MLS staff. The NASL may pay more, but that gap might shrink as USL teams decide to spend more on their teams as MLS subsidizes their payrolls.

    Third, I think it puts pressure on the NASL teams to really make strides on becoming second division in more than name only. Attendance needs to rise above the 3,000 mark. Teams need to build their own facilities like San Antonio is doing. They need to establish youth development schemes of their own.

    Of course, MLS has tried several different player development models and none have worked or stuck. This one could fizzle out like the others as well.
     
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  13. mng146

    mng146 Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    No, no, and furthermore, no. That statement is fair and balanced and classy, you read it wrong :D.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and determine what it was that I cried foul about so I can get over it ;).
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  14. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Good points, attendance is already above the 3000 mark though at 3800 average per game in 2012, maybe you meant above 4000 though. USL Pro's average in 2012 was 2600 plus per game, they could use a bump over the 3000 mark, especially with their bottom 5 teams averaging less than 1000 per game, ouch!

    As for the talent gap, I think NASL should be able to stay ahead of D3 USL Pro with the higher salaries and I think they will go higher yet if Minnesota's signings this week are an indication, and the New York Cosmos are probably going to pay premium NASL salaries. San Antonio is up there as well.
     
  15. Bluesfan

    Bluesfan Member+

    DC United
    Aug 12, 2000
    Tampa
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Most of the NASL clubs average in the 3,000 range or lower. Yes, I meant attendance needs to get out of the 3,000s. For the NASL to be a legitimate second division, they need the majority of their clubs drawing like San Antonio.
     
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  16. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well in the short-medium range to assure survival the 5K mark should be the goal for all clubs. IMO
     
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  17. Bluesfan

    Bluesfan Member+

    DC United
    Aug 12, 2000
    Tampa
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    That would be sign of success if all the NASL clubs could average north of 5K. Only one club does that now (San Antonio). The 5 to 10K range was what I meant when I said San Antonio numbers.

    Stadium building is going to be an important component of the NASL's future, just as it was for MLS. They need to be sure to require new clubs have plans for their own place. Starting out small like Atlanta would be fine (at least 5k), but a project like the Scorpions would be preferred.

    Hopefully the Indy stadium plan is the real deal and gets done. Virginia's baseball stadium sharing arrangement has suck written all over it.
     
  18. Jossed

    Jossed Member+

    Apr 23, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    ^ To get a project like San Antonio going, you need to sell MLS as your goal. SA would have never bothered with their stages if they didn't intend on going beyond the NASL. That is why the stadium for the Pittsburgh Riverhounds might be the way to go. They privately financed for $10 mil a 3,000 seat stadium with room to expand. The tricky part for them is they draw under 1,000. It is a huge risk.

    That is also a double edged sword. Since you are losing money anyway, the worst thing you can do is compound that by overpaying for players at the D2 level. Minnesota might greatly regret their spending spree. Never mind the money they are paying to rent out the Metrodome for four dates. It can get ugly real fast.

    It is not like the NASL is paying to bring in new talent that will draw fans. But now upping the salaries of existing talent like Barbara and Campos. Since neither of these players were ever getting back into MLS, NASL clubs just competed with each other to make them richer. Something MLS has gone out of its way to control. Nothing kills the bottom line of a club quicker. And nothing is scarier for a league that has no real revenue stream.

    FC Edmonton certainly learned that lesson last year and cut their budget.
     
  19. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do we know how much the Stars are paying for those players? Its possible, maybe even likely, that they are paying top dollar but does anyone know for sure?
     
  20. Bluesfan

    Bluesfan Member+

    DC United
    Aug 12, 2000
    Tampa
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    I wasn't talking about the later stages of San Antonio's project. There is a very good chance that none of those ever get built. The capacity of that initial phase is right about the sweet spot for NASL aspirations. 5K is too small and anything over 10K is too big. 7k or 8k is just about right.

    To get that done, I don't think you have to play the MLS in the future card.
     
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  21. teucer

    teucer Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure the salaries have not been disclosed.
     
  22. Jossed

    Jossed Member+

    Apr 23, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    The problem is that the Scorpions stadium is being entirely privately funded on land Gordon Hartman owns. No other NASL club has this scenario.

    Yes, the later stages are for MLS only, but who knows how much the lure of being a major league team one day brought in the early private funding? Hartman was forced to raise a lot of cash on his own after being rejected by the city.

    What you want to avoid is what happened in Rochester.
     
  23. Bluesfan

    Bluesfan Member+

    DC United
    Aug 12, 2000
    Tampa
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Raising your own funds is not the problem. It is the solution. The NASL needs to graduate to attracting owners with the vision and juice of people like Hartman. The Indy people seem to fit that mold, but time will tell. Those type of folks will make this league what it needs to be.

    Rochester overplayed the future in MLS card and they got stung. The Scorpions have mentioned it as a possibility but they seem to have their aspirations more grounded.
     
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  24. CHHSfan

    CHHSfan Member

    Oct 30, 2010
    Chapel Hill
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wakemed might be another example. Try and find more uses for your stadium, and cities will be more willing to spend. We got renovations because Cary wants the College Cup. Other NASL teams could use concerts or state championships as enticements. So far, only Edmonton really seems unsustainable as a stadium option, but others can improve.
     
  25. Sevin

    Sevin Member

    May 24, 2001
    U.S.
    The Silverbacks stadium is privately funded.
     

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