Howard, stop swallowing your whistle. This is getting ridiculous. https://vine.co/v/M5HbIU5iZU3 Clattenburg should be pissed. He's getting screwed out of a World Cup.
I don't know. Sure looks like the Atletico's player arm comes up into the Barca player's face before there is any other contact. Also, without any context, it just looks like it would be a softish penalty. No call--again, without context--seems a just decision. I think the focus on Webb on this board is actually what's gotten ridiculous. It's reaching hysterical heights. I think you could pick out any top game in UEFA or the EPL and--9 times out of 10--could present a debatable penalty that, in a vacuum, should have been called. Heck, in Clattenburg's 3 penalty game at Old Trafford, most have said he called one dive and missed another penalty. So even he only had a 50% ratio in penalty decisions for that game. Is getting 2 out of 4 penalty decisions wrong an acceptable standard? Was his performance in the Gold Medal match at London, with an apparent missed red card, acceptable? It's easy to pick one incident from each of Webb's games to harp upon; unless the same is done for Clattenburg, it just sounds and feels like a witch hunt. I'll say what I've said all year: Webb has missed several big incidents in the EPL and Clattenburg and/or Dean have been the best referees in the league. No argument there. But Webb also has been great at international competitions. Clattenburg isn't getting screwed out of anything. Unless you think Jair Marrufo should be going to the World Cup over Mark Geiger, because the former had a better MLS season last year (whereas Geiger has been much better at the international level). There was a rigid selection process in place for the World Cup and plenty of top referees didn't make the hurdle (Kassai, Skomina, Undiano Mallenco, Lannoy, Garcia). If Clattenburg had merited selection over Webb, it would have happened.
Webb had a good end of 2013. But he has been poor this year. It's only April and he's had numerous times when he's incorrectly swallowed the whistle. I don't know if he has lost confidence or what. Of the top of my head, you have the noncall on the West Ham handball, the noncall on Suarez getting tackled in the PA in the Arsenal game. Taking current form and the less than stellar WC final, he doesn't deserve to go. He is taking someone else's spot.
And you know this because you've catalogued the performances of the other 51+ candidates over the past 2 years? I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to argue that Webb isn't one of the top international referees in the world. There is special scrutiny on him because of A) he's in the EPL, which many of us watch every week & B) Clattenburg is such a good referee and a potential alternative. The fact remains is that he and his team won out on the merits. There are plenty of other referees who have had questionable decisions or performances over the past year. Irmatov's non-PK call in Brazil; Rodriguez's double yellow and suspension in Mexico; Brych's ghost goal; Rizzoli's ARs' UCL performances; Aguilar, well, being Aguilar. The list could easily--easily--go on... if only we all watched the Algerian and Chilean and Gambian and Serbian leagues every week, I'm sure we'd have plenty of material. But we don't. And Webb is the only one subjected to this level of scrutiny.
I think the point is that his performances have gone, in general, downhill certainly over the past year, from where they were. Yes he still probably is better than many others internationally, but the cumulative effect of errors seemingly on a weekly basis have detracted from his reputation. Yes, the others you cite have made some errors also but not as many. Accordingly, it seems that he has been getting by on his reputation, whereas others you mention (Kassai, Skomina, Undiano Mallenco, Lannoy, Garcia) who did not get selected for WC suffered the consequences of poor performances. Clearly having a) been at the WC previously and b) refereed the final (however poorly) have worked in his favor so he is still rated by FIFA and UEFA. But strangely, he does now seem very reluctant to make hard and controversial decisions, for whatever reason. I don't think it is a witch hunt as such, more perhaps a case of the "Emperor's Clothes." (BTW I did not see the Barcelona match, so I have no input on the incident that started this thread.) PH
Because we watch him every week and people are eager to scrutinize him. I mean, let's be serious about this thread. It's a 4-second clip of a single debatable penalty call in a 90 minute match, used to argue--along with previous errors--that Webb shouldn't go to the World Cup. What other referee in the world faces anything close to this? How do you know? We see every single one of Webb's EPL, UCL and EL performances. 50+ games a year under a microscope. How many non-FIFA performances have you seen in the past 2 years from the other referees going to the World Cup? Other than Geiger, can you--or anyone else--assert that you've seen, let's say, at least 15 performances of any of the other referees? I know I pay more attention to this sort of stuff than I probably should, yet I also know I can't make that assertion. On top of the fact, which I argue above, that it's impossible to know if other WC referees have made the same amount of errors as Webb, without actually viewing their entire bodies of work, I still don't know how this would follow "accordingly." You are willing to concede that FIFA kept some referees home based on performance but, at the same time, went with Webb on reputation. If that's true, why wasn't Kassai--a UCL Final referee and a WC semifinal referee--afforded the same courtesy? Obviously FIFA was willing to leave home big name referees. Yet they chose Webb. Or his Confed Cup, EURO 2012 and UCL performances since 2010 were, collectively, better than Clattenburg's international performances. Maybe he's still rated by FIFA and UEFA because, well, his ratings in FIFA and UEFA games have been stellar for 3 years. I do think he tries too often to "manage" situations that other referees wouldn't attempt to manage. But this isn't exactly a new phenomenon with Webb. On top of the early incidents in the Final (and I'm not talking De Jong), you had the Slovakia v Italy scuffle in the goal that he emerged from without a card and a borderline SFP tackle in his UCL Final--and that's all from 2010. For better or worse, Webb's been doing this for years. When other referees face the same scrutiny he does, I'll buy this. Again, as I pointed out above Clattenburg was only 50% on penalty area decision in the Liverpool/Manchester United game; but we didn't hear close to the criticism of him that we do whenever Webb has a miss. Clattenburg gets two penalty decisions wrong in his biggest game of the year, yet continues to get nothing but praise; Webb wrongly awards a corner kick and he faces an online inquisition here. There is a clear double standard (and, again, I say this as someone who readily admits Clattenburg has, overall, been better in the EPL this year). Yet here we are using it to debate whether or not Webb is a World Cup caliber referee. The 90+ minutes we aren't seeing are irrelevant to the initial poster and some others; only this clip counts.
My points were more of a general assessment and reasons why Webb is viewed in this way, not just from this one incident in this one game. I was trying to point out possibilities of why he was selected over some of the others. I agree that performance in actual international matches is probably more important in their eyes than performance in domestic leagues, and that probably helped him as well. Webb does not get hammered over incorrect corner kicks, it is the major incidents that are discussed, PKs and red cards, and usually those not given when they should be, not the other way around. Others do get hammered as well, look at what happened to Marriner. As for the WC selections, I have no interest in the fact that Clattenburg is not going and this is not a factor in my viewpoints, in fact I did not mention him at all. However, we all know that there are factors other than performance that influence WC selection. Our friend from Mali is an example of this, and there have been many others over the years. Webb clearly is a WC caliber referee in the overall sense, I don't think anyone really disputes that. But so are the others who were left out, and also many others who did not get to go in previous years. There is a fine line for the top referees from the major countries. Does anyone think that Dean could not do well at a WC? He is certainly as good as several who have been selected, or who were in the running yet he is never even in contention. About the other referees' errors, it is true that we don't see everything, but we certainly hear about the critical ones, and we have not heard as many from the other guys. I am sure we would have heard about any more that may have happened. Certainly the criticism of Webb is due to his high profile. More is expected of him because of it, so it is a bigger deal when he has errors than when someone like e.g. Taylor allows a goal after the keeper was clearly fouled. Overall, all I was saying is that it is easy to see why some people would feel that Webb's selection was not really deserved this time. It may be unfair for the reasons you point out, but it is not totally unjustified. PH
I'm not a Webb fan by any means, but that is a 50/50 PK at best. It is a foul, but it's not some horrible miss here. Webb had a really good game.
I have made this point before. Webb does a LOT of matches. In some comparisons, twice as many as his international compatriots. That has to be wearing. He averages close to a match a week in season and by the end of the WC this year, he will have done nearly 50 matches. Cobbling together Geiger's matches from this season, he did 15 MLS matches, a few internationals, some Champions League matches, for around 23-24 matches. (I could be off one or two here) Is England the only jurisdiction that has the referees work so many league matches? Kuipers hasn't done a Dutch League match in months. Rizzoli has done 21 matches this season.
Agreed. Say what you want about Webb in the PL, but he remains one of the best in the world on the international stage. And he proved this again last night. A potentially volatile match, between the two sides from the same country, that are one point apart in La Liga, and the tie delicately balanced at 1-1 going into the second, and aside from referees, no one is talking about Webb. There were several occasions where players were losing their heads, trying to intimidate Webb by surrounding him and play acting, yet Webb remained the calmest person on the pitch. He managed the game as only Webb can and no one can have any complaints about the cards issued or not issued. I happen to think it was a penalty, but can see why Webb and others disagree. Having said that, with the potential for problems as they were, I think he had a fantastic game! I've said it before, but one of Webb's strengths is he has the best team. Cann and Mullarkey are the best pair of ARs in the world, and when Webb's on form, the trio are unbeatable. I was going to also make this point. The pressures put on English referees because of the size of the league, the number of domestic cup matches, the fact referees are required to referee outside of the PL as well, and the requirement for international and European club competitions is greater than on any other nation. It's not just the potential fatigue, but it's the exposure. You'll see Webb far, far more than almost any other international referee outside the US, and usually on high profile games, so you're much more likely to see errors from him. I've only really seen UEFA's top guys on UEFA competitions, but I'm willing to bet the Rizzolis, Kuipers, Erikssons, etc make just as many mistakes in their lower profile leagues.