I don't even know where to start with such drivel. Please read my post again. I suggested no such thing. The problem with your defense is the actual quality of play demonstrated in Honduras. Nothing more, nothing less. We have plenty of "prima facie" evidence suggesting that these so-called best players don't necessarily make for a better team. Plenty of precedent I would say. I don't think anyone can argue this. To claim that you actually know what would have transpired had certain particular players played instead of said players is laughable. You my friend wreak of egoism and self-absorbtion. A condition often visible in prepubescents and BS posters such as Jond. I mean BS posters often trash players as slow, old, low soccer IQ, sucks, and so on. And I agree, most of these players are objectionable at best. I simply want to extend the label to all our players including those one dimensional box-to-box players who play in Europe. I just don't view someone such as Altidore as having revolutionary epoch-making talent. Maybe you do.
I never objected to the lineup. I simply question the delusion and misconstruction of BS posters who actually believe we're capable of greatness with this flock. Not going to happen. Read the Pre-Match thread from yesterday. I can still smell the juicy fallacy from here. The federation needs Billy Beane right about now. I'm curious, who do you think was the better player for the USMNT yesterday?
Folks, this is one game...on the road in the hex round of qualifying. The US traditionally do not get too many results on the road in this stage of qualifying. I'll start panicking when we start dropping a number of points at home.
1 you're really late on this. 2 he didn't have any PT which continues to make the original point valid. No need to be a little child and knit pick. Jog on, champion.
Freddy, Mix, Gatt, Agudelo, Gyau, Shea, Feilhaber, Torres LOL NO, Yes, Not yet, Not yet, Not yet, Yes, Yes, No Other midfielders to try who are not Adu: Corona, Pontius, Rolfe, DeLeon, O'Brien, Nguyen, Nagbe (eventually), Gaven, Rowe, Silva, and oh yeah DONOVAN.
What I think is that things like the reasons stated above wouldn't have kept Bob from calling in at least a few of these players. I think that is both his best skill and his biggest downfall. He can get the best out of the worst players, but sometimes these players' issues can get the best of him. Robbie Findley, while not individually brilliant, made sense for at least two matches against Turkey and Australia, and some would say he helped make room for the rest of the attack against England. No matter how far-fetched the solution may seem, Bob wasn't completely averse. He could see the tactical usefulness of just about any player. But, like I said, there are serious downsides. Even if the players he picked were tactically the right call, they, similar to Juergen's squads, were not always of the best quality, or had issues specific to them, which would then cause Bob issues. So while Adu as a second forward in the Gold Cup final and Donovan as a false nine worked, it had consequences ( although Bob was short a striker with Altidore injured).
Freddy had a solid season last year in that he created some good chances that were not converted, but I dont think Juergen will ever call him up until his club coach says he works hard in training and isnt a distraction in the locker room.
"Like most 23-year-old point guards, he has good days and bad days, which is fine -- but not for a team trying to win a championship." “He’s done great,” Billups said of Bledsoe. “He’s had some games where he hasn’t produced great numbers, but that’s going to happen with a young guy who’s in a tough situation. His good days are going to far overlook his subpar days. Once he starts to minimize those subpar days, he’s going to be ready.” This about Eric Bledsoe of the Clippers. Another young, inconsistent player. Yet, he's allowed to be inconsistent because he's young. Freddy's not because he's "Freddy Adu - the next Pele". Hopefully Freddy becomes more consistent. If he does, Klinsmann will call him up.
I guess you guys saw the tweet from Ives? For those that haven't (and care): https://twitter.com/SoccerByIves/status/299953345718808576
Both of your lengthy posts spent significant time talking about MLS players, players without clubs, etc. and their quality over the 'Euros'. I guess its ok to back off extreme opinions once someone points out some logical limitations. I know I have in the past. I think many of us know we aren't great and only want enough quality to qualify for the world cup. I did think E.Johnson was one of our better players while O.Gonzalez struggled that led to two goals. Neither opinion now sets in stone any broad reaching statement on which continent or league we should get the majority of the players from. By logic the majority of our players will come from European leagues with some from Mexico and some from MLS. We lost yesterday not because of where our players come from but rather how we played the game. That we need to change.
Crazy how close to a dozen clubs around the world are involved in a conspiracy to keep Adu down. What's even more crazy about it is that they are the ones who employ him as a player so they're actually willing to work AGAINST their own interests just to screw with Freddy.
I would normally expect a player and a team in this situation to do what each thinks is their respective best interest. Both parties want to get the best deal they can get, w/o accepting preliminary offers they think they can do better than. Both parties are looking out for #1. Fine. The question is why the Union would refuse to let him train w/ a team that might take him off their hands if they like what they see... The kneejerk answer is that my presumption about what people want is wrong. The Union are simply jerks who want to screw Freddy over so badly that they'd purposely eat his salary in order to prevent him from playing for anyone, just like the kneejerk answer from Union fans who are angry w/ reports that he's turning down offers is that he's a jerk who'd rather sit and not play while sticking it to the Union. You'd think this isn't actually the case though, no? Wouldn't you think that my initial presumption is correct, and that both sides want to do what's in their respective best interests? So why, then, would the Union think it's in the Union's best interest to not let Freddy train elsewhere? Maybe they don't want him playing for another team in MLS, because if he does well they look dumb, and also because he might play well against them? Or maybe they think he shows so poorly in training that they'd rather teams simply make an offer sight unseen? Or maybe they don't want to risk him getting hurt...so yeah, he can train w/ you if you're willing to assume his contract in the event he gets hurt (how much does that kind of insurance cost?). Or maybe they think that this is putting the screws to Freddy to a certain degree, and that will help motivate him to accept some sort of buyout w/ terms more favorable than they're likely to get by cutting a deal w/ another team? I don't know what they're thinking. I don't assume their FO is all that smart; based on past actions, I don't believe that they are. I am, however, assuming that they somehow think that this actually is a good decision for them, as opposed to them simply being vindictive. (These things are not mutually exclusive, of course. I'd bet that even if they are the latter, however, they'd prioritize the former, just like even if Freddy is pissed, he's not going to hurt himself just to hurt them. Vindictive or not, both sides will do what they think is best for them.)
The thing that most people fail to recognize is just how different club and international football are. Every country has always had players who tore it up for their clubs but had no success for country (Taylor Twellman, for the US, for example), and players that had no club career to speak of, but always performed well for the Nats (Tony Sanneh comes to mind). Adu is one of these players. If you check the record, it is true - he just plays well in a US shirt, almost without exception. Maybe he is more motivated to play for the US, I don't know. But we always focus on club form so much and forget what a different animal it is from the international game. Do I expect JK to consider this? Absolutely not - he has said club form is key. But it is just one of those odd things about football that we should perhaps take a closer look at.
Once again you've managed to totally miss the point. I'm not opining for said player over another. I'm simply advocating that we try something unorthodox to break the spell. It's hard to argue with mediocrity. I mean, one only has to witness the ravishing winsome play of the past few years to decipher not all is right in "Soccerville" USA. Wouldn't you agree? I will reiterate once again, the best players with the best qualities don't necessarily make for a better USMNT. There's plenty of precedent as it relates to this talking point covering multiple sports. Remember, according to your post EJ was one of the better players on the field. Was EJ on anyone's radar prior to the call-up? I found multiple posts in the Pre-Match thread discussing how Klinsi got the lineup right except for EJ. You can't make this crap up. It's all there. At the end of the day extreme unbridled narcissistic delusions dictate conventional wisdom on BS. Welcome to the club.
You're right. This Clippers player should expect a call from Coach K about the US team any day now. Great point.
Go back and read the last sentence of my post. Once he becomes more consistent (hopefully its before the World Cup) he deserves a callup from JK. The point of my post is that most guys are allowed to be inconsistent when they're young but Freddy isn't because of his name.
I did read your whole post. It's an irrelevant analogy. Freddy has been allowed to be inconsistent for a long time running now, indeed for most of his career up to this point. When he wasn't allowed that inconsistency, it was due to the pressures of circumstance which in more ways than one were Freddy's own doing. But inconsistency, in terms of quality of play, work ethic and personality (or whatever other factors have conspired to have him at 8 clubs in 7 years or whatever the number is), that happens at the CLUB level. It will never happen at the international level, at least not for long. It's not the job of US Soccer to bring Freddy along, because even though it's the US this is still a results oriented entertainment business we're talking about. And by the way... even at the club level... if you think Bledsoe could be able to sign a new, big deal with another team and still be "allowed" to be inconsistent, you're sorely mistaken. Bledsoe is allowed to be inconsistent for a reason, he's a project for the Clips on a certain wage. That's not where Freddy is at. Hence, the analogy doesn't apply.
I thought Adu would be at January camp but it didn't happen. Guy needs to get consistent playing time. Not just his fitness but the type of player he is will never make him a 90 min guy for the USMNT. Time is ticking, MLS teams are well into pre season training and games. He'd be behind if he joins late. Not a factor for the USMNT, his goal must be to make the Gold Cup. That is, assuming he still is serious about the whole soccer thing. As far as Diskerud, Feilhaber, Gatt go... I don't understand why Klinsmann sent Gatt back to Norway and why Diskerud didn't even make the bench over someone like Evans. So stupid. No, it wouldn't have changed the result in Honduras, but the substitutions might have made more of an impact. Shea recent transfer so unavailable Gyau not playing in 2. Bundesliga I believe Agudelo needs to improve but will be in the picture Torres is always played at LW by Klinsmann. Doubt he ever plays him properly.
Hasn't JK almost gleefully spoken of how he thinks young players should typically be brought along very slowly, letting them get their feet wet here and there, but not regularly calling them up for extended, meaningful duty until they're older...with youth and Olympic teams as their primary MNT outlet until then? Doesn't he use himself as an example, saying something like he didn't play for a German WC team until a few weeks before he turned 26? Maybe if it's close, and you're not tearing it up in leagues he respects, his default position will be to pick older guys? Or maybe he simply prizes what older players bring - consistency, professionalism, strength and so forth - as opposed to talent that may be superior but is raw? The guy's sure been more conservative and more of a stickler for 'steady' over 'gifted' types than I expected, given his talk about how much more of a positive, attacking side the U.S. should be, and how the biggest deficiencies he sees in U.S. players are related to technical skills and abilities like touch. I'm not sure regular playing time will be enough to get called in. I think he needs that, plus dominant performances on a regular basis, plus perhaps his manager to vouch for him and also for JK to feel that he's more committed to improving his fitness and that this improvement has shown results. (Regarding the latter, I kind of figured that was another reason he went to Turkey. To send JK a message by training there w/ one of JK's approved fitness guys who might report positive effort/results back to JK.) Or maybe JK gets desperate and simply decides to roll the dice w/ Freddy, should our offense continue to stagnate and other more positive player fail to provide much of a spark... Barring these two scenarios, I'd be surprised to see JK call him up. Here's the thing about Freddy, though. He's been regularly subbed out as a pro (though much of that has actually seemed tactical to me). And he's also not been signed before for being too out of shape to immediately help (much like EJ at Puebla and Joseph just now by Seattle; apparently it is hard to stay in game shape when you don't have a team to train with). But his fitness has actually always seemed pretty good when he wears the U.S. shirt in tournaments before, no? Even when we play multiple games during short weeks, he's seemed to really give great, never say die efforts all the way up to 90, even when others seem to be fading, no? Unless folks are saying that you don't run as much or expend as much energy during, say, Olympic qualifying (against 23 year olds) vs. WC qualifiers (against full men's sides)? Iirc, he was either pretty seriously out of form or out of shape at first during the last GC, hence no minutes early on, i.e., it took him a while to round into shape/form - or a while to gel w/ folks, I don't know - and only then did Bob play him.