We need more foreigners-link

Discussion in 'Houston Dynamo' started by metroag, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. metroag

    metroag Da Bomb Diggity

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  2. brahmafutbol

    brahmafutbol Member+

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    I saw that but didn't really know what to make of it. I thought about posting it too but had no idea really what to think of it. On the one hand, it does seem odd that one of the US' most international and culturally diverse cities has the least international team in MLS. But on the other hand, who cares? We have a group of guys that like each other and fight to win for each other. They represent us well. In the end, that's all that counts.
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  3. Heft

    Heft BigSoccer Supporter

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    Them feriners can be really expensive though.
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  4. metroag

    metroag Da Bomb Diggity

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    I really don't care where they are from-it was just a catchy thread title. But the piece was very interesting for MLS fans and/or soccer geeks.
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  5. MLSNHTOWN

    MLSNHTOWN Member+

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    [​IMG]
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  6. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

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    Yes we do need more foreigners. IMO in points to a lack of scouting and agent contacts in Latin America.

    I'm not talking quotas here that's not the point. World wide South America and Europe produce tons of players. I mean world wide everywhere you look teams have a Brasilian or Argentine on the roster. We've had Caraccio and Camargo in 8 years.

    I would be very disappointed if i ever found out its a locker room issue. This is an international sport fellas and if you want to be surrounded only by Americans play NFL football.*

    *MLB has loads of Latin Americans and Asians in rosters, NHL has Eastern Europeans and NBA has Europeans and Latin Americans. The Dynamo should have at least more foreign players than the Rockets.
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  7. footyfool

    footyfool Member+

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    I read it twice and still don't see a point?
  8. metroag

    metroag Da Bomb Diggity

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    I thought it was interesting how many foreigners we had compared to other teams. I also found it interesting the success those with higher numbers of foreign players had and how much of a salary they commanded.

    I think the article can be taken many ways-those with more foreigners seem to do very well but then you can look at us and our success and say, we don't really need them.

    I just like graphs and soccer salary talk.
  9. newtex

    newtex Member+

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    The article points out that New York and Portland have a lot of non-USA born players and conclude that having more foreign players leads to good results. Is that true across the board? Since there are different total players for each team I used the difference between how many foreign players a team had and the average number of foreign players (12) to determine how "foreign" a team is. And I threw out the Canadian teams.

    Here is a chart ranked by how a team differs from the average number foreign players compared with their standing based on regular season points:

    Rank, Team, Difference from Average (Points Rank):

    1 POR +6 (3)
    2 NYR +4 (1)
    3 FCD +3 (13)
    4 SEA +2 (6)
    5 CHI +2 (11)
    6 PHI +2 (12)
    7 SKC +1 (2)
    8 COR +1 (8)
    9 DCU +1 (16)
    10 RSL -1 (4)
    11 LAG -2 (5)
    12 NER -2 (7)
    13 SJE -2 (10)
    14 CLB -2 (14)
    15 CHV -3 (15)
    16 HOU -4 (9)

    So, yep, Portland and New York are at the top but the team with the next biggest number (+3) is FCD who finished in 13th. Three teams are at +2 but only one of them made the playoffs. Teams at +1 actually did better than +2 on average. If you lump all 7 of the teams that had fewer than average together you don't have any teams in the top three but a majority of them made the playoffs. And one made the MLS Cup final.
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  10. Soccergodlss

    Soccergodlss Member+

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    All I see is that teams who spend more, have more foreigners. Hard to argue we're doing it wrong, when we are consistently in the hunt for the Cup. In fact, you could argue that if we spent the same amount of money on only American talent that others spend on foreign talent we would be better than those teams because American players are paid less and offer more value for the money.
  11. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

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    the problem is we only have 2 major trophies to show for all that hunting. the last one earned 6 years ago.
  12. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

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    This is Houston. We're still glutting over those 2 and probably could for years longer so long as we're in the hunt now and then. I mean...cmon. besides the Aeros (RIP), Comets (RIP) and Rockets, what pro titles have we won in my lifetime?
  13. Soccergodlss

    Soccergodlss Member+

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    Been to the finals 4 times in 8 seasons. That's damn good. I honestly don't value supporter's shield all that much like some others, so I'm pretty happy where we are. Only LA is above us in terms of overall success since our introduction.
  14. crocken

    crocken Member

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    the two teams closest to the mexican border have the highest % of americans. that is ironic, right?
  15. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

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    Eek, 2nd place not good enough for me. At this point I would take a US Open Cup trophy. Anything. We've lost some of that swagger we had in 2006-2007. Back in those years, the players didn't even like losing the Carolina Challenge Cup.
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  16. Heft

    Heft BigSoccer Supporter

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    The Supporters Shield doesn't carry enough weight in my opinion. Only the best team of the season can earn it. The USOC earns a CCL spot, which is valuable under the current salary cap system, and teams don't like to put much into it. Maybe the allocation for the CCL spot is not enough.

    It's exciting to make the playoffs, but half of the league gets in too. The SS is what I covet. It is indisputable proof that a team is likely the best in the league.
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  17. Soccergodlss

    Soccergodlss Member+

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    I can agree with that. Being second sucks! But I don't think having more foreigners equates to having more success necessarily. You have to have the right ones that are worth the value that their price tag shows. You just need good players and coaches with a unified mentality that can fit into a salary cap structure.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
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  18. Soccergodlss

    Soccergodlss Member+

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    It doesn't prove that, because not all teams value the SS. Some will sacrifice some in the league to make an MLS Cup run. It's two different competitions really and depends where your priorities are. Do you want a marathon winner or the team that can win in high stakes situations? I like the MLS Cup because that is the one left standing at the end of the year. They are the ones really celebrating at the end. New York won the shield, but they left the season with the loss we handed them in the back of their minds. :)
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  19. Heft

    Heft BigSoccer Supporter

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    I prefer to win any trophy possible, but to be intellectually honest, I think that the Supporters Shield winner is the true champion of the season, even though the MLS Cup is the crown jewel of MLS. I'd rather have a team win more points per season, than one that is mid-table. I don't believe that the MLS Cup winner is the best team in the league but I do acknowledge that the playoffs give poorer teams a reason to live because even a 9th place team can go to the Cup.
  20. troutseth

    troutseth Member+

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    Interesting...I find the SS to be almost as useless as teets on a bull. If everyone played the same schedule fine....but that has happened twice. I wish they would just get rid of the damn thing.

    As for the stats on the link...to newtex's point I am not sure the data supports any conclusion. You have teams at the top from both sides of the foreign versus American born chart and vice versa. Not too mention MLS rosters shift so much year over year you would likely get a standard deviation off the chart if you tried to map success to foreign born players over time.
  21. Heft

    Heft BigSoccer Supporter

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    It is useless, except for measuring points earned during the season. MLS Cup to me is almost a sham though for defining the "Champion". That's why I'm happy that they are giving the CCL allocation to the top of the tables instead of the conference playoff champion.
  22. troutseth

    troutseth Member+

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    It is the number one seed for the playoffs...that is all. That is all it would be called today if not for a group of fans over a decade ago. The CCL bids are USSF and have changed enough times to not count on them too much. Or put another way what would the SS be without the bid? In fact you can omit SS from the equation now...both conference winners get a bid. You can finish fourth in the combined table and get a bid by winning your conference. The SS winner is now on par with a team that could technically finish as low as sixth in the combined table as far a CCL bids go.

    I just don't put much stock in calling one team better because they won by two points but got to play Toronto and DC three times each while the other team played the two once or twice.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  23. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

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    Regardless in the order you place them we can all agree that the MLS Cup and SS are the two top trophies in the league. We haven't one won of the two since 2007. That needs to change.
  24. Heft

    Heft BigSoccer Supporter

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    Understood. I guess there is just not a great way to define a true champion with an unbalanced schedule. Neither the SS nor the MLS Cup are optimal, but at least the playoffs are an acceptable way to crown a team in N. America.
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  25. troutseth

    troutseth Member+

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    Very fair statement. And it will get more disparate as we add more teams which is why I wish they would retire the title.

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