WC Draw News & Analysis

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Berks, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Actually not long ago it was on the news that two Brazilian footballers, Claudiney Rincon (midfielder) and Danilo (goalkeeper), who played for the Guinea-Bissau national team (they have naturalized a bunch of Brazilians), contracted malaria and were in treatment back in Brazil. Claudiney died, while Danilo recovered. Malaria is no joke.
     
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  2. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Take this video and replace one whiny, Portuguese-speaking diver with another. That is how we should deal with him.
     
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  3. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well then Manaus should be a playground for your tropical disease tastes.
     
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  4. chockfullofthat

    Oct 29, 2012
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You lost me here. A true football hipster pick :laugh:

    Doesn't even mention, Germany vs Portugal too come on man!
     
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  5. TheyCallMeBruce

    TheyCallMeBruce Member+

    Jul 22, 2013
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I'm certain that this isn't true, just speaking from a probability standpoint. In fact, it's probably more likely that we take points off of Germany than they go 3-0 while we go 0-3.
     
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  6. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    That was the right way to handle Neymar in a friendly. That won't work in the WC.
     
  7. chockfullofthat

    Oct 29, 2012
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The odds are 10/1 to 16/1 depending on the betting site, so hardly astronomical.
     
  8. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True. I was mentally bundling in all Group G matches with the US matches, as in absolutelycannotwaitjesuschristwhenwillJunegetherealready - level anticipation.
     
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  9. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I'm not saying that is the most likely outcome. Nor do I think that will happen. I'm just speaking to the idea that Germany will be favored to win in all 3 of its matches, and we will be favored to lose in each of our matches. But the actual probability of W-W-W for Germany and L-L-L for USA is probably less than 20%.

    More specifically, there are 4 teams playing a round-robin, so there are "4 choose 2" = 4!/(2! * 2!) = 6 matches.
    Each match has 3 possible outcomes -- win, draw, or lose. So there are 6*3 = 18 possible outcomes for the group, and the sample space is 18.

    For each match, we can look at the probability of each outcome (W/D/L). For example, against Germany, the numbers might be: 10% USA win, 30% draw, 60% Germany win. I just made up those numbers for illustration. We can do a similar exercise for the other matches. Once we have all 6 probability sets, we can choose the most likely outcome from the sample space of 18. I would be interested in seeing the numbers on that. Maybe some kind statistician (*wink*) will run the numbers.

    Some will say that we should be favored over Ghana. I think it's close. USA is probably overrated in the FIFA rankings and Ghana underrated. Let's see what happens in Natal. If we beat Ghana, I will be giddy with joy. Now we have a motivational slogan: "Win this one for Bob!"
     
  10. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From November
    The Guardian Ranks the 32 Nations

    Esteemed football thinker Jonathan Wilson and Zonal Marking/ESPN.com's Michael Cox each assessed the 32 sides in Brazil and came up with a combined ranking.

    They pegged the US at 15th -- noting, however "Their progress is heavily dependent upon a good draw..."

    ...sigh....
     
  11. nikeboots

    nikeboots Member

    Jul 21, 2012
    Ohio/Oklahoma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and this is how we can have Jermaine deal with those Germans



    Jones has some history with Marco Reus as well



    Jones is a dirty, enforcing type of player but he's our dirty, enforcing player. I'm being a little sarcastic but I actually enjoy having a guy that other teams hate on our team. Us against them mentality, I guess.
     
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  12. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd disagree with this pretty strongly.

    The most realistic outcome of each individual match may be for Germany to win and for us to lose (and I think even that's questionable as I think we may be favored vs. Ghana), but the most realistic outcome of all of the matches put together is for Germany to drop points in at least one match or for us to pick up points in at least one match, probably both. An 80% favorite in all three matches would actually win all three only half the time.
     
  13. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    What percentage of World Cup groups, since say 1998, have seen their 6 matches played with zero draw results in that group?

    (And of those, which have seen one team finish on 9 points and another finish on zero?)
     
  14. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Teams that won all group matches, since 1994 -- just FYI:

    2010:

    Argentina, the Netherlands

    2006
    Germany, Portugal, Brazil, Spain

    2002
    Spain, Brazil

    1998
    France, Argentina

    1994
    zippo
     
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  15. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    While you are there, be sure to give the leshmaniasis and bot flies a try, too!
     
  16. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the mix of English and German and the ******** you attitude, that music should be Jones' personal theme song.
     
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  17. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    German Gangsta Rap. Loved it.
     
  18. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    So I finally finished my simulator, now good for the whole tournament. Also, can someone tell me how to copy something from Excel without the formatting getting all screwed up.

    Version based on SPI Ratings:

    USA Finish:
    Fail to Advance from Group = 60.58%
    Round of 16 Loss = 18.48%
    Quarterfinal Loss = 11.94%
    Semifinal Loss = 6.13%
    Final Loss = 2.18%
    World Champion = 0.69%

    Version based on Elo Ratings:

    USA Finish:
    Fail to Advance from Group = 61.76%
    Round of 16 Loss = 16.06%
    Quarterfinal Loss = 12.48%
    Semifinal Loss = 6.92%
    Final Loss = 2.14%
    World Champion = 0.65%

    Anything is possible, if not rational!

    Below are all 32 teams odds to win, along with some betting odds that I found. Brazil seems to be highly undervalued; odds are less than 3 to 2 based on SPI and Elo, but the bookmakers have them at 3-1. But you have to believe the plus 100 elo points for the home field advantage.

    If you pick the right parlour, along with Brazil, SPI also likes Germany, Chile, Ecuador, USA, Costa Rica and Honduras (YAY CONCACAF!). Elo bets are Brazil, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, USA, and Costa Rica.

    SPI Version:
    Team, Win%, Odds, Betting Odds

    Brazil, 41.639%, 1.4, 3 -3.5
    Germany, 15.631%, 5.4, 5 - 6
    Spain, 11.882%, 7.4, 6 - 7
    Argentina, 11.553%, 7.7, 4.5 - 5
    Chile, 3.187%, 30.4, 40 - 66
    Colombia, 2.824%, 34.4, 20 - 22
    Uruguay, 1.973%, 49.7, 25 - 33
    France, 1.790%, 54.9, 18 - 22
    Netherlands, 1.671%, 58.8, 20 - 28
    England, 1.297%, 76.1, 25 - 33
    Portugal, 1.093%, 90.5, 25 - 33
    Ecuador, 0.842%, 117.7, 100 - 150
    Belgium, 0.827%, 119.8, 14
    USA, 0.689%, 144.2, 125 - 200
    Italy, 0.677%, 146.6, 20 - 28
    Russia, 0.663%, 149.8, 50 - 80
    Bosnia, 0.308%, 323.5, 125 - 200
    Switz, 0.294%, 339.2, 80 - 125
    Ivory Coast, 0.276%, 361.0, 80 - 200
    Greece, 0.202%, 494.1, 200 - 300
    Mexico, 0.169%, 591.3, 100 - 150
    Ghana, 0.123%, 812.1, 125 - 250
    Nigeria, 0.082%, 1213.4, 200 - 300
    Croatia, 0.081%, 1239.9, 125 - 200
    Costa Rica, 0.074%, 1349.3, 1000 - 5000
    Japan, 0.047%, 2134.6, 100 - 200
    Korea, 0.039%, 2588.2, 200 - 500
    Iran, 0.030%, 3345.7, 750 - 1500
    Honduras, 0.025%, 3980.6, 1000 - 5000
    Cameroon, 0.007%, 13680.6, 250 - 1000
    Algeria, 0.001%, 73061.3, 500 - 2500
    Australia, 0.001%, 79953.0, 250 -1000

    Elo Version:
    Brazil, 42.140%, 1.4, 3 -3.5
    Spain, 16.152%, 5.2, 6 - 7
    Germany, 15.095%, 5.6, 5 - 6
    Argentina, 8.130%, 11.3, 4.5 - 5
    Netherlands, 4.228%, 22.6, 20 - 28
    Portugal, 2.224%, 44.0, 25 - 33
    Colombia, 1.837%, 53.4, 20 - 22
    England, 1.675%, 58.7, 25 - 33
    Uruguay, 1.438%, 68.6, 25 - 33
    Italy, 1.185%, 83.4, 20 - 28
    France, 1.001%, 98.9, 18 - 22
    Chile, 0.782%, 126.9, 40 - 66
    USA, 0.646%, 153.7, 125 - 200
    Russia, 0.611%, 162.7, 50 - 80
    Switz, 0.548%, 181.4, 80 - 125
    Belgium, 0.492%, 202.1, 14
    Ecuador, 0.488%, 204.1, 100 - 150
    Greece, 0.326%, 306.2, 200 - 300
    Mexico, 0.204%, 489.5, 100 - 150
    Croatia, 0.180%, 554.6, 125 - 200
    Ivory Coast, 0.179%, 556.4, 80 - 200
    Bosnia, 0.161%, 618.5, 125 - 200
    Japan, 0.070%, 1432.2, 100 - 200
    Iran, 0.061%, 1629.4, 750 - 1500
    Nigeria, 0.060%, 1673.1, 200 - 300
    Costa Rica, 0.023%, 4401.8, 1000 - 5000
    Korea, 0.022%, 4470.5, 200 - 500
    Ghana, 0.020%, 4927.1, 125 - 250
    Honduras, 0.011%, 8825.1, 1000 - 5000
    Australia, 0.007%, 13537.4, 250 -1000
    Algeria, 0.002%, 54244.9, 500 - 2500
    Cameroon, 0.001%, 91690.5, 250 - 1000
     
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  19. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember laughing at a German rapper Sido, talking about the mean streets of Berlin. Or another guy, can't remember his name, talking about how hard it was growing up in Koln.

    I felt like I'd just watched a rap video of how hard it was for kids growing up in suburban New Jersey or Connecticut.
     
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  20. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The video for that song is absolutely hilarious:

     
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  21. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    #2521 tab5g, Dec 12, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
    And the "zero-point" teams from specifically those shared groups as the 9-pointers?

    Edit:
    2010:
    Netherlands 9 w/ Cameroon 0

    2006
    Germany 9 w/ Costa Rica 0

    2002
    Spain 9 w/ Slovenia 0
    Brazil 9 w/ China 0

    1998
    Argentina 9 w/Japan o

    So, if we accept the sample size of the last four WC finals, there have been 10/32 groups with a effect 3-0-0 tam on 9 points.

    And there have been 5/32 groups that have had both a 9-Pt and a 0-Pt team.

    (If that ratio is held and repeated, then we could/should see perhaps one group with both a 3-win and a 3-loss team. Don't know if Group G is any more or less likely than any of the other groups to be "that" or one of "those" groups.)
     
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  22. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2522 MarioKempes, Dec 12, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
    Yes, your first phrase was the point I was trying to make, and the rest of it is the point I was making in my followup post. The most likely outcome, by definition, is that Germany goes 3-0 and we go 0-3, because those are the expected results of each match. However, there is less than a 20% chance that that will occur (I don't know the true figure according to the bookies -- just accept the 20% for the sake of discussion). And therefore, there is greater than 80% chance that this won't occur. These types of groups almost always have upsets. I'm sure this group will be no different.
     
  23. Dr. Gamera

    Dr. Gamera Member+

    Oct 13, 2005
    Wheaton, Maryland
    There are in fact 3 to the 6th power, or 729, possible outcomes for the set of six group-stage matches.
     
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  24. raza_rebel

    raza_rebel Member+

    Dec 11, 2000
    Club:
    Univ de Chile

    I knew a guy (fcuking trustafarian) who decided it was a good idea to sleep out in a tent in the tropical lowlands to be closer to nature. On top of that, no mosquito net. End result was he got a bot fly larva behind his ear. The worst part about it ...on top of the pain I imagine...was he could hear the thing move around. :sick:
     
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  25. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great story. Sure is hard to get closer to nature than having it living in your skin!
     

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