Ways to Make the MLS more popular domestically

You keep saying businesses have a right to regulate standards that's correct. But MLS is the business with the sole right to operate D1 soccer in the US. They aren't one business in a larger marketplace, they are the market.

For instance, if I want to open a burger joint. I don't need to go MacDonald's, pay them a sum of money, and get vetted. I just open the ********ing burger joint. That's called a barrier to entry, and capitalism aims to minimize them.

But for soccer, MLS is the only game in town. It's the D1 sanctioned league. And you have to pay their asking price to have a D1 team. That's a ********ing monopoly.

Anyways, I'd really think we can hammer this out on another forum.

I'm more than willing to debate with you. But you try and belittle people who don't share your viewpoints immediately often using bullshit ad hominems, or that us Canadians can't speak to the American experience. This isn't the first time you've done it. It just leads to shit devolving on the board.

I don't know but you strike me as one of these "REAL AMURICAN" types (the opposite of Eurosnobs), who loves to attack Canadians on this board.

Anyways man, I'm gonna try and leave it. I probably lost my cool a bit disproportionately. So at least partially, my bad.

Wouldn't a match at another stadium be a special event. the idea would be to draw a big crowd not your average crowd at your home stadium, no? The idea would be this is a one-off in larger stadium. Any city they play in won't be at an SSS (or at least an MLS level SSS).

I hear this about every place in the States. Is it really true? I've never been to Baltimore. But I assumed the demographics was geared towards American sports. I don't see any of those guys on The Wire wearing Barca jerseys :0

CPB never drew decently. To say that is mistating a fact. I can't seem to remember them getting more than 4000 at any game, and averaging a lot less. They were the Charleston Battery.

If the team moved....not just if DC showed up for one game (which was what we were discussing, no?).

Though, I'll buy in though if DCU moved permananently and didn't change its name for a season, people would show up. but there's no way you get a huge crowd for one off, which is really why you'd do it.

Basically, you're a soccer fan from the area, who knows a lot of soccer fans in the area. I'm asking is soccer a mainstream sport in Baltimore? Enoguh to pull non-hardcores in for a big event match. We had something like that in TO recently, and we had a lot people who aren't hardcore soccer fans show up. Is that replicable in Baltimore?

I doubt it (but this matter is debatable), but right now I'm thinking your local knowledge is more like local bias.

Balrimore would be fine. It's no different than any other big city. There are several fantastic youth clubs in the area, Maryland has strong amateur and youth leagues, and friendlies in Baltimore have been well attended.

I'm not sure where you get the idea soccer is not mainstream in the US...

Someone needs to read Federal Baseball Club v National League. Get informed, then I'll read the rest of your misguided post.

D1 Soccer, legally, means the same thing as "Big Macs". And yes, you need to pay McDonald's if you want to sell Big Macs

He beat me to it. MLS is the only option for FIFA-sanctioned soccer, but there's nothing stopping somebody from starting up a non-FIFA-sanctioned league. Like if you want to be a McDonald's you have to serve Big Macs but if you want to be a burger joint you can serve whatever you want.

You do realize that USSF determines this, right ?

MLS doesn't sanction itself. You're barking up the wrong tree in this regard. How are they monopolizing something they don't control ? USSF can strip them of their D1 sanction at anytime and award it to the other professional leagues that exist in the United States like the NASL or the USL. The only thing they are doing is setting the standards for MLS "worthy" markets, which they have every right to do.

Don't like the other issue ? You need to start talking about USSF and quit blaming the MLS.

I'm a Texan, we have our idiosyncrasies.

In this particular case, what set you off was the "LOL, out of touch" comment. In all honesty how the hell is that really offensive or anything to do with you being Canadian (which I honestly didn't know until I checked your location a couple of posts ago). I don't give a crap where anyone is from. Anyone that doesn't know the market that they're making an example of (which you didn't) is going to get a poke from me if I know different. In the case of the DC/Baltimore/Northern VA market, I don know better.

I bit of a misreading on my part here.

If DCU went up to Maryland and played a match, no they most likely wouldn't get 25K. I'd be more than willing to be they'd get at the very least, the MLS avg attendance though. They might spike. It would depend on the opponent most likely.

However, if they moved I'd be safe in presuming that Baltimore wouldn't drag the avg attendance down.

Well, in every place ... probably not the love extreme. That specific area we were talking about ? Yes. There are several hot spots and in general, I'm willing to be that the overall popularity of the sport would be highly surprising to people outside of the US.

CPB did draw decently. They drew over 1K for a USL-2 club. As in, the third level of soccer in the US. Relative terms here. Over 1K for a third tier club ? In the United States, yeah that's decent.

Mainstream ?

Well Baltimore has in the past put a stadium proposal in for DCU: http://www.bmoreinterested.com/2011/11/one-westport-waterfront-with-mls.html

The league polled Baltimore to gauge interest http://www.blackandredunited.com/2011/11/1/2531607/dc-united-moving-to-baltimore-soccer-survey

DCU itself has seriously looked into Baltimore for relocation in the past.

Hell, the University of Maryland has the 5th highest college soccer attendance and draws roughly 2,500 ... to college soccer.

Then there's this from 2007 http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2007-06-20/news/0706200210_1_play-soccer-soccer-games-major-league-soccer .... I highly doubt the interest has slumped since then considering I lived there in the time frame of that article until now.


.... if that's bias, so be it.

College Park and Silver Springs aren't Baltimore, the culture is different. Those two locations are literally next to DC, along the beltway. A lot of Baltimore people thought I was crazed for having to drive to DC every day. Besides the traffic- which sucks 100%- I couldn't understand why driving 35-38 miles was such a major deal for people in Bmore. But, to them, you might as well be driving to Philly or Jersey...( which was farther but could potentially be a faster drive, believe it or not).

I just moved from Baltimore 6 months ago, and, selfishly, I was hopeful that DC United would move down the street from me, but I would have no way to predict if a team would be popular within the city. Sure, the DC fans would drive up, at least I'd like to think a majority of them would.



My anecdotal evidence is only this:

There are definitely soccer fans in the city in what is really a football and baseball town. Baltimore folks like to think of themselves as a sports town, and those two sports are constantly being discussed.

Hockey and Soccer aren't really on the radar there as much as some people believe. I was the only MLS fan I know, all of my regular friends were O's and Ravens fans. A few would watch EPL, but, that's about it. My "soccer" friends were all into foreign leagues, and it was mostly just a handful of dudes that hung out at Slaintes on weekend mornings, which is a great place to watch a game. I'd say that 70% were Americans, the rest English, and Irish nationals. the US MNT games would literally pack the place with hundreds of fans, which secretly gives me hope a team could be supported there...

You'll sometimes see a kid in Everton a jersey, Celtic, Man City and , I was surprised by a one kid wearing a Flamengo shirt, he was from Brazil , of course. But, unless I went to a DC game, I rarely seen any MLS fans, just a few bumper stickers.

The only time I saw a lot of MLS shirts was when Baltimore hosted MLS draft.

I went to CP Baltimore games, and enjoyed them, but, the attendance wasn't great- BUT, the reason , in my view, was the team would move around for games, not every week, but like four of five different locations in it's last year...I can't remember. It would be at UMBC, then Maryland soccer plex...freaking Gaithersburg, lol.

( Oh yeah, their last game was at a high school in Towson. It was against the Portland Timbers and there was about 5-9, maybe more, traveling fans there. I was very happy that I got to see them there, they chanted the entire time, and cheered on their team. )

The AC Milan- Chelsea game was a hit, but, we all know that doesn't translate to MLS attendance. I know non-fans who went , with their soccer friends, and said they enjoyed it. A few said they would like to see a game again, and these are the people I would love trying to sell the game to.

All in all, I'd like to think it would be a success, because like I stated earlier if you look at KC and Philly, they are an example that MLS can be a success in any major city. It's just my experience from living there for years makes me unable to guarantee it would.

Plus, if DC did have to move to Bmore, then it's current fanbase wouldn't really "lose" their team in the same way that they would if it packed up and went to NY, or Orlando. So, you would definitely have some of the fans at the games, there's no doubt about that.

You know how you get 8 Canadians out of a tree?

You ask them politely

I'm not trying to pretend they are, and if it came across that way I'm sorry.

I put out examples from not only the specific spot I was in (SS/CP) but with Baltimore as well in order to illustrate that yes, that entire region loves soccer.

It stretches from Northern VA, through the DC Metro, and up to Baltimore. I saw it all throughout. I can't speak on Baltimore as well as you could obviously, but I did see plenty of love for the game and actually went to that CPB match in Gaithersburg that you mentioned (went too a couple in 2009 as well and I'd have a hard time believing there weren't over 1,200 people there, again for a 3rd tier soccer club).

Well now you're starting to blur the lines a bit ... MLS popularity and soccer popularity aren't the same thing. You did though, touch on the one thing about Baltimore that would have me believe that they'd support an MLS team very well. Baltimore loves their sports, regardless of who or what it is. Give them a soccer club in the biggest league, they'll support it if nothing more than because it's the Baltimore team.

Before the ESPNZone got closed down everywhere I'd hit the one in Inner Harbor once a month/every six weeks or so. I always saw a few soccer jerseys in the place. MLS jerseys were worn the least, BUT I saw the highest range of different ones among the MLS jerseys worn though. Off the top of my head the only teams that existed at the time that I didn't see where Colorado and NYRB (oddly enough). I freaking saw FCD, CLB, and the WIZ. But the "real" leagues and teams I saw had a very, very small sprinkling out of the top 10 jerseys you'd expect.

I brought 5 "non-fans" to that match and holy freaking hell was it a hit. I wore my DCU jersey and told them just to take it in. Amazing selling piece. I managed to "convert" 3 of 'em thankfully. Of course, the fact that they didn't care that RFK was a shit hole (due to having grown up there and gone to see NFL games in some pretty crappy stadiums) and DCU has some of the best fans/supporter's groups in the league, they bought into it when I told them the entire story of the league. They couldn't believe that the guys in the stands for DCU were like that for something that was younger than they were.

To be fair, I think that's an underrated aspect of the "if DCU were to move to Baltimore" discussion. Yeah, some fans would be outright pissed. Given my impression of their fanbase though, they'd know where that anger should truly be focused and they'd still support the team. Barra Brava would have their own section in a SSS in Baltimore if it was DCU up there (or the team FKA DCU).

Baltimore has so much potential for an MLS team. I think the fact is obvious even to the owners of Crystal Palace Baltimore, which even though it folded, and filed for bankruptcy were still trying to secure a stadium there while DC was as well. I still believe if they had a consistent place to play, they would have attracted more fans. One month they're at UMBC, then gaithersburg, and other locations.

If you wander around Fells Point, you will definitely spot soccer gear. And, going down Pratt st, where ESPN Zone used to be, you can potentially see some as well. I know I try to wear some form of a shirt, like US mens team jerseys, MLS, or like American outlaws or fan made shirts a lot when I'm out, any excuse to strike up a conversation about soccer with non-fans...sad, but, true.


My point about hockey and soccer not being on the radar was in regards to things like the Sun, and that , for the most part, a lot of people just don't seem to notice soccer or hockey. It's very typical of American cities in that manner, which isn't really a surprise. People are very open to it, however, as people seem to respect the sport and don't denigrate it when you bring it up.

Lacrosse, as you well know, is very popular there, so possibly having a love for a sport that isn't nationally popular gives the people a very open mind when it comes to soccer...who knows...


What I really can't believe I failed to mention was the Blast, the indoor soccer team. You should check out their attendance, they get probably 5,000 or more a game. I have no idea how it slipped my mind. Sure, it's indoor , and maybe some fans might not be attracted to the slower aspect of the outdoor game, but, it's a huge potential market that can be tapped into. Like you said, Baltimore loves ITS sports teams, so those guys would add to filling up a potential MLS soccer stadium.

I can't believe I forgot the Blast, because that's a huge deal in this Baltimore conversation.

Sorry, when I wrote earlier. I did not mean to imply that Baltimore couldn't/wouldn't support MLS. Based on some of this anecdotal info and just my best guesses, I honestly could see Baltimore pulling average attendance. If they got funding for a stadium, it would probably be an easy bite for MLS (especially if DCU just moved).

I just don't think "it's a city that loves soccer". I also don't think Philly is one either.
They can still support a team. Soccer will always be a bit less mainstream in those cities.

That's why a one off game in those markets may not do that well, as part of the draw of a team is it represents the city. Otherwise, one offs need the star power that those Euro friendlies pull.

I think you make a lot of wild assumptions here. There are plenty of soccer fans in just about every large US city. The game is played at a very high level all over the northeast and the fans came out for friendlies and one offs, in part, because that's all we had for a while. What cities all over the US don't have in large numbers is MLS fans. In Philly, we are just scratching the surface, not because soccer isn't mainstream, but because there are still tens of thousands of soccer fans outh there that aren't yet fans of the Union.

I think the thought that "most" DC fans would follow the club to Baltimore is completely wrong, I know I for one would not follow and I know most of my friends feel the same way. Also, not saying that is everyone's opinion but I know its the general thing i hear around. Also, it would be cool if Baltimore got its own team but its DC United not Baltimore United.