Oh, EVERYBODY does. All of Chicagoland? There are thousands and thousands of people going to these games? They should be doing amazing business, then, if EVERYBODY is going to games. The games should be on TV, then. Sports Illustrated should be doing stories about this amazing phenomenon where EVERYBODY in Chicago pays to go see ethnic league soccer. Oh, I love this. I LOVE this. Love, love love when people play the "real fan of the game" card. Everyone experiences and appreciates the game differently. Just because people who more closely identify with soccer from wherever it is their roots come feel that their way is the best way doesn't make it so. We must have millions and millions of people who aren't "real fans" of the game in this country, then. Unless, as I've been told, EVERYBODY pays to go see ethnic league soccer. Absoutely EVERYBODY and I'm just in that small sliver that doesn't. No one gives a flat ******** what you think about what makes a "real" fan.
So you guarantee, huh? What do we get if you're wrong? I mean, that's what a guarantee means, right? Amazing that very few people would come from Baltimore to Chicago for a game, yet people would come from Chicago to Chicago for a game. Forget it. Your original point - that few people go to Soul games - is completely valid. Also, duh. But nobody gives a ******** about the rest of your guarantee. Produce the photos and gate receipts or shut up.
Mr. Tomasch, quite being a grade a tool. I know who you are and chances are you know who I am. If you want to engage in debate, you'll lose. If you want to test my soccer acumen (on ANY level) you'll lose there also. And since I DO know who you are this internet tough guy role will not get you far because you'll lose there as well. What I said was that the people who go see ethnic league soccer pay their way in. Not the entire chicagoland, because all of chicago doesn't go see the fire play much the less minor league/semi pro soccer. As far as being in sports illustrated, I guess not...not any more so than the Rockford Lightning or Kane County Cougars. Do these leagues make money? Hand over fist. That's why there are so many of them. If you had any clue whatsoever, you wouldn't even bother debating the issue. If you have any inferiority complex about your background in the game, then that falls on you, not me. But please don't make an ass of yourself debating a topic you're entirely clueless about.
AEK Chicago vs. Kenn Tomasch "The Battle of the Yellow Cards" Life's too short, guys. Enjoy the games wherever and however you can watch them.
"And chances are if you've never been to an ethnic league game, you're not a real fan of the game anyway." Are you saying anyone? Or anyone in the Chicago area?
Most of the time, consistency of play is what separates most players in the pro levels, not just skill. We can seen very good players play in ethnic leagues, indoor leagues, college and even high school that have the same skills of some of the top players in the world, but can they perform at a high level on a consistent basis? In most cases, I say no, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t enjoy it and even pay to see it.
And the reason that inconsistency exists is because 1) the player in question has a major flaw in his game which is exposed over time, and/or 2) conditioning.
What most people don’t realize is that the indoors and outdoor game are two different animals. The flaws of a player in the outdoor game can be overlooked in the indoor game because of the field and the amount of time players are in the game. In the old days of the MISL , the players got paid more money so they could afford to become experts of the indoor game. Just look at the great indoor players of the 80’s and 90’s most of them would have tough time at the outdoor game.
A lot of indoor soccer greats in the 80's were also very good outdoor players. That includes Zungul, Terlecki, Veee, Segota, Granitza, Margetic and Haaskivi. Jimmy Banks, who is going to be inducted into the Milwaukee Wave Hall of Fame, appeared in 35 US national team games during the 90's.
WRONG. The GREAT indoor players were also great outdoor players. Zungul, Stamenkivic, Terlecki, Segota, etc..... Some good outdoor players, like Granitza, had a harder time with indoor simply because their game wasn't suited to indoor, but for the most part the great indoor players were equally as good outdoors. Actually, your technical flaws are exposed more indoors than outdoors because time and space are restricted.
I’ve known a lot of great outdoor players that have tried the indoor game and they’ve decided that it is not for them and it is not for the lack of skill. They tell me is the same but different.
Certainly the indoor game is more physical. I agree granitza and marjetic were better outdoor players but they were still darn good indoor players, if they were in their prime I would love to have them on the soul now.Skill in dribbling,passing and shooting matter indoors and out.
I agree with you Marjetic would've been great see at his prime. Indoor soccer does have the enforcer/goon factor like ice hockey, so you do need big physical players to help on more physical parts of the game. And if you have size and great ball skills, even better.
Soon one will get a red card, and then the argument would be if it is a straight red or an accumulation, and should it be a 2 minute penalty or 5 minute. Oops, sorry. Wrong thread.
Okay so I read these forums from time to time and at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion. My knowledge of the game comes from playing for my country at the senior level, playing at every level in the US (from PDL to MLS). Playing in Asia as well as Europe. I have also played in the MISL and I enjoy the indoor game! For anyone to say that the soccer players in the MISL are not real professionals and compare them to men's league teams is sadly mistaken. Yes some of the guys playing for the Soul have indeed played in men's leagues around Chicago, and probably as recent as this past fall. But these players have been professionals before and are now currently training on a daily basis in a professional invironment. The soul are an expansion team with a few quality veteran players And some good young talent but they are struggling because compared to the rest of the MISL their roster doesn't compare. Obviously there was a coaching issue as well. Indoor is a game that when you are truly out matched it is very difficult to win. Much harder for a bad team to win an indoor game than a bad team squeeze out a result in an outdoor game. I guess my point here is respect these players! Im sure if you who thinks you know everything and probably plays mens league or played at some point in your life if given a soul jersey and asked to play you would look like a complete idiot out there! An expansion team isn't going to just show up and win the MISL. They will take their lumps but will probably get better. The new head coach has a good knowledge of the game and was a good player too, they should get better. Lastly you would be surprised at how many good or even great outdoor players would struggle in indoor and vice versa. I would put money on it, that if you took the MLS Champions (LA Galaxy) and picked 15 of their players to play a real MISL (rules and all) game against last years healthy Wave MISL Championship team (or even The Blast) at a MISL arena in front of fans that the Wave or Blast would win. Yes the Galaxy has very talented soccer players but the MiSL has talented indoor soccer players as well, and the good one are very good at the indoor game. It's hard to compare indoor players to EPL players or as someone said top division players its a different game. Some of the best EPL defenders would do terrible in the MISL. They would get large amounts of blue cards and not feel as comfortable on the ball as the high pressure some teams in the MISL use would cause them panic give up the ball and restarts. Then top players like messi im sure wouldn't struggle but he is just a different class... Hey I'm just voicing my opinion... I have played with some very high quality players outdoor at a high level in my career and played with some guys indoor that I feel are very good players as well. If you are a true indoor soccer fan support the league. If your new to the indoor game or a team give it time and watch an entire season of games and pay attention, some of the schedules are brutal. It's not easy being a professional player indoor or outdoor. If it was I'm sure you as a soccer fan (who probably played growing up) would have been professional yourself! Until next time I'm going to work on getting an MLS v MISL game to happen as I'm sure some if not all on this thread probably think I'm crazy! What a game though huh? I'm sure it would fill the arena!
Only if it was LA (with BECKHAM AND DONOVAN) would it even come close to filling the arena PS- didn't Baltimore years ago have a thought of trying to scrimmage DC United? Heard that somewhere
This is one of the most cogent statements I have ever read on this soccer board. When I was a boy, I loved the Orioles and I still do to this day. As a young boy, I faithfully listened to every game on the radio. I went to very few games because my family could not afford the cost of going to the games. That did not make me less of a fan than someone that went to every game. As indoor soccer fans, because there are no real financial success stories out there, everyone has an opinion about what would be the best direction for the sport. We can all differ on what teams we root for, what leagues we follow or think are the best, but with there being so few of us, relative to other professional sports, I don't think that the sport can afford to have it's followers so polarized over minor points. In my opinion, in every sport, because of years of refinement, better training, better coaching and the basic fact that people have grown bigger and stronger over time, athletes from decades ago would struggle keeping up with the modern athlete. The great ones in every sport from any era, would adapt and excel because the things that made them great transcended their actual physical skills. They would still be great, but the players that were just good probably would not necessarily be able to compete today. Lastly, for anyone to marginalize anyone else's experience or passion for indoor soccer because it does not match their own, given how few of us there are, is not only wrong, but somewhat stupid.
WHO ARE YOU AEK??? Steve Siomos? Let me remind you of your misinformed post about the current MISL rules regarding a red card time penalty on the Rey Martinez ejection thread, so your keen insight on THIS BOARD has begun as less than impressive considering your extensive referee background.....just saying. You are a regular on the REFEREE board and they are used to your brash, opinionated style of writing. I have no problem with it however in case I missed something you are a relative newbie on this board. Θέλω απόψεις σας και είμαι επίσης φίλοι με Ken. πάρτε εύκολο!
Actually, what I meant is that the skill set required for the two games is not exactly the same. For example, you could have a player who was very adept at the outdoor game (Granitza is one that comes to mind) that wasn't as effective indoors. A guy that needs that extra bit of time and space to turn, like Granitza, would struggle a bit more indoors where time and space is restricted.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but I for one have the utmost respect for MISL players. The only thing I said is that the current league (and its players) is not in the same class as the old MISL. That's painfully obvious for all to see. Look at the Soul roster, for example. I do not think they have a single player who has played professionally in a first division except for their coach (maybe Bato too, but I'm not 100% sure) Now compare that with the Sting team, for example, that played indoors. Granitza, Moreira, Peter, Rojas, Klopas, Batata, Klincarski, etc.....that team was loaded with top division quality guys. And most of the other teams were the same or similar. Zungul, Vee, Hasskivi, Tatu, Stamenkovic, Preki, Segota, etc......How many guys in the current league are of that caliber? The answer is zero. The current guys are still professionals, and very good players...just not of the caliber that people were used to before. I think you raise a valid point but IMO the talent level gap between the galaxy and the wave, for example, is significant enought that the galaxy would prevail despite not being as acclimated or suited to the indoor game. Don't forget that players like Steve Zungul and Stan Stamenkovic never played indoors before they came to this country....and they absolutely tore up the indoor game. A good player is still a good player, no matter where he plays. I go to as many indoor games as I can...Soul, Mustangs, and even the Rampage in Rockford. You're 100% correct Being a professional soccer player is NOT an easy task.
Well, you can start out by writing a coherent sentence in Greek... what you wrote translates to: I want opinions and by the way I'm friends with Ken. Take an easy one. I'm sure something was lost in the translation, no? In any event, I did qualify my statement by stating that there may be a unique rule in the mls regarding a red card time penalty..and I was correct. Midwest Ref, however, did point out that I was correct according to Illinois affiliated indoor rules. The MISL has its own set of rules, the PASL has its own set of rules, every indoor league has its unique set of rules. Lastly, if/and when you do see Steve, tell him AEK said hello.