Watching Jozy score and thinking about whether Klinsman is junk

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by yabo, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I feel like we're clinging a bit too tightly to the idea that Dempsey is better closer to goal. While it's true that he's dangerous in and around the box, it's not like he'll starve if he's not tethered to the goal line. The guy has excellent skill, touch, balance/on-the-ball strength, and determination. This makes him excellent at sustaining pressure from multiple players, which in turn creates space for other players.

    This is why I would actually prefer Dempsey in the attacking midfield role. Donovan isn't the kind of guy who can retain the ball under pressure when the play is at a stand still, which is probably what keeps him from being a fully functional #10 like many have envisioned. However, he still has good vision, pace, and passing overall, so if he does happen to find space to stretch his legs (particularly between lines), and has players moving off of him, he's one of the more dangerous players in the world. And that's my honest opinion.

    So, in my mind, the best way to use Donovan and Dempsey is to use Clint to draw attention away from Landon, who should have the freedom to look for space, either as a wide midfielder drifting inside, or an attacking midfielder in a free role.
     
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  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Jozy has shown a very nice ability to pass the ball in combination as well. It's not just the passing, but the group of traits I mentioned earlier that places Jozy more as a combo forward than a cf like Drogs. Terrance Boyd is more the natural cf.
     
  3. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I completely agree with this. Of all our forward options, Boyd's the only one who actually looks and plays like a center forward.
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    In the box. He looks clueless in midfield, or he would likely be starting for us. Havent seen a minute of him since August, tho. He must have improved since his Italy friendly when he looked like a horse just escaped from the barn.
     
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  5. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Boyd looked rather solid in his 1 1/2 games he played with the U23's. of course that team failed to qualify, though some may argue for different reasons ;)
     
  6. Foolishness

    Foolishness Member+

    Aug 15, 2012
    Holy LOL! That was a great description of his play in that game.

    Boyd is an interesting character, I've watched a lot of his games and a few highlights. Boyd has improved in the box and could be invaluable as a player against a bunkering team and even on a final touch on a counter. He's fierce in the box and with height, speed, and strength can beat his mark and find a lane. He's scored some absolutely ridiculous goals this season off crosses and set pieces with one touch flicks and redirects. With that said, he's a horrible option in build up/link up play right now. I think he's scored one or two goals out of his ~13 on the season from build up. He takes some decent shots but he hasn't really scored with a legitimate shot. He's a peculiar fellow.

    I think if we assume CR is going to bunker a combo of Jozy and Boyd would be fantastic.
     
  7. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would be surprised if they bunkered
     
  8. PStevenson1082

    May 28, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Our inability to keep possession in the midfield and our suspect back 4 is a big reason why we aren't successful. JK needs to emphasize organized team defense(Mids and defenders behind the ball)to prevents goals. I'm not a Adu fanboy but he is the only player on this team that can make a team's defense nervous with his dribbling and passing abilities, so IMHO, I would rather play him and have the added dimension than to have him on the bench while still giving up goals. Also, I love the way Mike Bradley's game has improved in Italy but I feel that his intelligence(more than his skill) is needed more as a Sweeper/CDM because, to be honest, there isn't another player on the US roster who can do it and the back 4 needs help. (Jermaine) Jones has improved also but I don't think he will ever be as good as Bradley.

    I think a 4-1-2-1-2 would be a better formation going forward with Adu playing the 10 and Bradley as a defensive 6 in front of the back 4. Adu provides the service and Bradley helps with the defense. As far as the midfield, unless Donovan walks away, the roster is fighting for 1 spot. Right now, I think Shea is in the lead for that spot but there isn't a clear cut choice because all of our midfielders have deficiencies that make any of them a clear cut starter. Hopefully, they will improve on those deficiencies to improve their game. As for up top, I would prefer Dempsey to stay up top, close to goal because he is most dangerous there. I've watched his game at Tottenham and he has produced a little bit but he has also struggled to find first team time because of talent deficiencies(and selfish play from Defoe), although he produced at Fulham. Jozy has improved tremendously and I hope he continues to grow in skill and in confidence. With Adu at the 10, Jozy(and Clint) will put more pressure on opposing defenses from Adu's service. The only problem Jozy has is in his head. He has the skill and potential to be a dual threat forward.
     
  9. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jozy's problem is a lack of service or other attacking players to combine with.
     
  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Dont discount that Jozy makes it easy for Dempsey to score. Jozy has to be defended.
     
  11. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Explain how I discounted that? My post was essentially a defense of Jozy.
     
  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Understand. Hwvr, if Jozy is not getting service because he is pulling the defence to him and Dempsey gets the service, then lack of service is not a problem because we are scoring goals. I do not see many Jozy defenders pointing to that possibility. Instead they criticize teammates for not "serving" Jozy.
     
  13. Foolishness

    Foolishness Member+

    Aug 15, 2012
    I love posts like this. Jermaine Jones is already better than Bradley. Bradley prays to have the career success that Jones has had. Has Bradley been more consistent and key for us on the international stage? Historically, yes. Recently, No. Bradley is good, he's something we've never seen in a long time, an American Product finding success in Europe at a young age. He's not better than Jones, he probably will be at some point but definitely not right now.

    What's interesting about your post is that you're noting that MB should be our 6/CDM and I fully agree with that. Jermaine Jones has been playing some amazing link up, long ball, and 2 touch football recently and has been such a huge asset to Schalke over the last 3 or 4 games. I think we could even play a 4-2-3-1 with Jones and Bradley in the back if we could only get a decent chemistry with them going.

    I think this would be our ideal lineup, if the stars aligned, we got all 7 dragon balls, and tossed a billion pennies in magical fountains.

    --Chandler--Cameron--Gonzales--FJ--
    ------------Jones-----Bradley----------
    Donovan-------Dempsey-------Shea---
    ------------------Jozy------------------
     
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  14. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quite bizarre logic my friend. Bizarre indeed.
     
  15. PStevenson1082

    May 28, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona

    I do recognize that Jones has had a very good year this season in the Bundesliga. Hopefully, his play will translate and pay dividends for the USMNT. I'm anxious to see if he has gained the maturity to overcome the stigma of "red card " Jones.
     
  16. Foolishness

    Foolishness Member+

    Aug 15, 2012
    This isn't a one year thing though, he's been quite a consistent player for many years even returning from injuries without missing a step.

    I don't think there's a "red card" stigma. Definitely a yellow but this is the type of embellishment that paints Jones to be a "loose canon, undisciplined, lazy, free roaming" player. The man has been straight red carded ONCE in his entire BL career. Only a few double yellows. I'll acknowledge the hefty suspensions he's faced for two consecutive seasons though. All this to say, that's the nature of his game. He's a straight workhorse, unafraid of the grimy side of the game, he'll toe step on a challenge, and lay down a hard tackle if you've playing a bit too well (e.g. Him destroying Neymar) and hardly malicious about it. However, he's at a point where his reputation proceeds him and he'll get a yellow quite a bit easier than most. He's a physical player with such a high level of talent but doesn't fit the US player mold but has yet to be outclassed by any team since his arrival.
     
  17. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So are you arguing that we should not criticize Jozy's teammates or Jozy himself because the plan is for Jozy to serve as a decoy?
     
  18. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone wonder why we have so many players performing at a high level for club but not country? Hint- its not a player personnel issue. Its a coaching issue.
     
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  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    There could be some truth in your hypothesis.
     
  20. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is your hypothesis we are trying to pin down here.
     
  21. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You said originally

    I said, in reply


    Jozy making it easy for Dempsey to score is not necessarily "Jozy's problem" as you put it.
     
  22. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never said that was his problem. I said his problems lie elsewhere.
     
  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I never said you said it.
     
  24. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You certainly implied it. I can no longer engage with such a low functioning individual.
     
  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    "Low functioning". That one goes in my souvenir drawer.

    Fine, but remember my command: Do not discount that Jozy makes it easier for Dempsey to score.

    :whistling:
     

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