Waste at the Pentagon

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by stanger, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
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    http://wheredidmytaxdollarsgo.com/tax_payers[/quote]

    Well it is less than the ND, but not by much.

    BTW the link calculated my effective tax rate incorrectly, that or I am getting away with paying less tax than I should.

    Edit: Just kidding NSA agent reading this, I pay "my fair share".





    So basically Income security is the same as Social Security for the poor, dang, add both parts of the pie chart and we are talking real money.
     
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  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
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    Maybe we should copy the Swiss, and I don't mean their gun policies:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/business..._giveaway_2_800_a_month_for_all_citizens.html

    In a way it makes sense. You don't like the way we spend your money? Here, have it, no more SNAP or SS or Medicare or whatever.
     
  3. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    #53 JBigjake, Dec 1, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  4. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    1. We don't have "more admirals than ships" AFAIK. Something like 220 to 280...

    2. I'd be very surprised if we didn't need something close to as many Admirals as ships in active service-- there are always "little Admirals" serving under "bigger Admirals," many Admirals in charge of stations, yards, installations, academic Admiral, diplomatic Admirals, intelligence Admirals, Admirals who are finishing up paperwork immediately prior to retirement, plus supernumerary Admirals so that if someone has a heart attack or is killed in the line of duty there's someone to replace him, etc etc.

    3. We'd almost surely be better off getting rid of Lieutenants rather than Colonels, and better off getting rid of Privates rather than Lieutenants...
     
  5. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    #55 JBigjake, Dec 2, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
    Getting closer, then.
    http://news.antiwar.com/2013/05/03/more-admirals-than-ships-americas-bloated-navy-leadership/
    There are far too many of both LTs & COLs.
    http://www.army.mil/info/organization/unitsandcommands/oud/
    http://www.army.mil/info/organization/unitsandcommands/commandstructure/
    A lot of "desk admirals" in the army!
    http://www.army.mil/info/organization/unitsandcommands/corps/
    http://www.army.mil/info/organization/unitsandcommands/divisions/
    3 corps + 15 divisons = 3 Lt. Generals, 15 Major Generals & 15 Brigadier Generals
    33 generals, out of 300.
    http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130626/NEWS05/306260012/
    There will be 32 BCTs & "95 ... combat battalions across the BCTs ... each BCT will have about 4,500 soldiers"
    That's 32 colonels & about 200 LTCs.
    The BCTs could each get a new commander every month for 8 years, and then the promoted LTCs would replace them. Ticket-punching is a favorite pastime among the officer corps, building those resumes for the Pentagon. Nothing like a company command for a captain & a battalion for a Lt. Colonel.
     
  6. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    #56 JBigjake, Dec 2, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
    http://www.navy.mil/CommandDirectory.asp
    Some may ask why there are 3,200 O-6 Captains, with less than 300 navy vessels, and why some of them can't command some of those installations. Reserves are good, but how many?
    4,000 platoons could each use a Lieutenant, 25% of the total 15,000 First & Second LTs.
    Company, battalion & brigade HQ sections can also use LTs as aides. Of course, they're full of majors, too.
    32 BCTs need 32 Colonels, 1% of the 3,500.
    All chiefs and no Indians, eh?
     
  7. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    #57 JBigjake, Dec 4, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
    http://www.salon.com/2012/12/12/7_absurd_ways_the_military_wastes_taxpayer_dollars/
    "As of 2010 ... there are 963 generals and admirals in the U.S. armed forces. This number has ballooned by about 100 officers since 9/11 ...
    a retired U.S. army colonel and now a military analyst ... says the military needs only a third of that number. ... a large number of these generals are essentially lobbyists for the Pentagon ... brass creep"
    "According to a Washington Post investigation, each top commander has his own C-40 jet, ... chefs ... drivers, security guards, secretaries and people to shine their shoes and iron their uniforms. ... A New York Times analysis showed that simply the staff provided to top generals and admirals can top $1 million" each.
     
  8. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    That can only mean one thing:

    Cut SS and Medicare!
     
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  9. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
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    I know you were being a smart*ss but my original point stands.
     
  10. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    No it does not. Spending in the military is huge (700 billion dollars), is in a big part wasteful and could be reduced drastically without really affecting the economy or the world order in significant ways:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melvin-goodman/nine-ways-to-reduce-defen_b_2808002.html


    On the other hand, SNAP is a fairly cheap program (80 billion dollars) and is a good investment in our own future and wellness:

    http://www.salon.com/2013/12/04/gop_debunked_on_food_stamps_everything_they_say_about_snap_is_wrong/

    Social Security is not only a successful program that keeps seniors out of poverty, it is self funded and requires minimum tax adjustments to keep being self sufficient for the foreseeable future:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-tax-cap-is-the-best-fix-for-Social-Security#

    Medicare is also a good investment and its costs are actually going down:

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/medicare-costs-down-down-down
     
  11. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    How much did Social Security cost when it got started? how much does it cost now? (in terms of Contributions by the taxpayer/employer)
    Do the same fore Medicare, and then see how small the adjustments have been.
     
  12. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And something funny happened when I looked at similar charts for defense expenditures:

    [​IMG]

    Soooo... In practical terms the GDP is around 16 trillion dollars and government expenditures are around 3 trillion dollars or 19% of GDP. We collect around 18% of it in Federal Taxes, much of it dedicated to SS (6% of GDP) and Medicare (3% ). Then we assign 5% to defense and then we have to do for the rest of the programs with 4% which won't do so we pay the extra 1% with debt.

    This changes my perspective on military spending a little bit and changes the conversation more to the revenue side of it.
     
  13. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    #63 ceezmad, Dec 5, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
    [​IMG]



    BTW our spending was 3.5 Trillion.

    or 23% of GDP.

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43907-BudgetOutlook.pdf

    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_budget_estimate_vs_actual_2012_XXbs1n
     
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  14. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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  15. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

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    As usual, you tried to spin something that I didn't even say.

    My original point, and the reason I started this thread, was to state that we can reduce our military spending without having any effect on our actual military, if we could eliminate the waste.

    Never once did I get into the other programs.
     
  16. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    I misunderstood you then. I apologize.

    Any other vices to report?
     
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  17. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

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    We can talk about my Jameson's addiction in another thread:D
     
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  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    You would think with the sequester, the military would go after the waste before they cut any specific military program, same with all other departments, the sequester would be a great opportunity to trim the fat.
     
  19. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

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    In these situations like all similar ones, there is never an agreement as to what is the waste and the fat.
     
  20. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

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    If you read the article I attached to the first post, our military has no idea where it's money goes. It hasn't been audited in almost 10 years.
     
  21. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

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    I'm sure this doesn't make the military unique among govt agencies. As far as I know there is no legal requirement at the federal level for agencies to be regularly audited.
     
  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    I think there is for most, but the Military is excluded.
     
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  23. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Do you know the act? If so its rarely recent. I'm sure congress or a member can have GAO do some auditing on an ad-hoc basis but since congress doesn't want to appropriate for what the fed govt already does I'm sure they don't want to appropriate for audits. State, local govts & others that receive fed funds must be audited but I don't remember if a similar requirement exists for the feds.
     
  24. minerva

    minerva Member+

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    I've worked for the Air Force, NASA, and the Bureau of Reclamation.
    I don't recall USAF, but I know that NASA and BOR was audited regularly by an outside independent auditor - Price Waterhouse being one of the more prominent ones.
    I don't know if that is just agency internal regs or if it's actually written into law.
     
  25. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003

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