VSI Tampa General thread

That's all very wonderful. So buy the Rowdies out and take the Tampa Bay Rowdies to MLS. NASL heritage teams, when brought up at the right time and in the right cities (Seattle, Portland and Vancouver) are proving a good bet.

I'm not asking you to "be impressed" with the Rowdies or their current ownership or their footprint as a 2nd division soccer team. They are a small outfit operating on a division two budget and not doing too poorly by minor league soccer standards. So you belittling that seems to show a little bias. Where is that coming from? Or is it just ignorance?

What I'm saying is bringing an MLS team to Tampa Bay that isn't called the Rowdies would be a mistake and an unnecessary one when all that would likely be in question is how much $ it would take. Your guys have $400 million dollars for this plan? Great! It would be chump change to buy out the current Rowdies ownership and move the team back to Tampa (where I fully agree they should be playing).

Continue the tradition that we've already given you a big head start on over the last few years and launch an MLS team on the back of Rowdies tradition that goes back to 1975.

 

Not odd when you consider it is being headed up by foriegners. They notoriously misunderstand how American sports work (WSW is exhibit A ). This strikes me as a similar venture as the Cosmos launch from a couple years back. Europeans trying to swagger their way into the soccer landscape, but not bothering to consult with MLS or local folks first? Not a good first step. Hopefully they get their act together or this isn't going anywhere.

 

If VSI is serious, they don't NEED the Rowdies. If VSI's plan comes off without a hitch and play the 2013 season in or near downtown in a modular stadium they just might outdraw the Rowdies. If the stadium gets built and MLS comes to town, the Rowdies become another footnote in history.

I don't think there are any conspiracies here. As far as the USL is concerned they just want teams in their leagues. A great number of PDL groups have grandiose crap on their website and in their, ahem, business plans that include a glorious future in MLS. Somehow, I think the USL bigwigs were caught off guard by this as well or at least surprised when it came to fruition.

Point is, if Orlando City knew about this little scheme ahead of time, why would they put together this 'rivalry' between City and the Rowdies next season? Seems like they would want to work with their future USL partners instead.

Do you not follow MLS? Please tell me how Orlando-Tampa would be MLS' truest sense of a derby?

If you are using the European concept of the word then Chivas-Galaxy would be the only 'derby'. Period. End of story.

In America we have rivals, not derbies. And I seriously doubt that a Tampa-Orlando rivalry would reach the passion of Seattle-Portland. Or Seattle vs anyone in MLS for that matter

I really don't see MLS going to the well twice in Florida in a short time frame as their preferred plan. Now if Tampa and Orlando have two nice new stadiums, owners, and ticket buyers in place, then that is a different story. But we are far from being at that point.

 

Playing the Rowdies makes sense regardless of their relationship with VSI. I think it's a bit odd to imply that geographically convenient friendlies should be rejected just because they're in different leagues. They're just friendlies, fer cryin' out loud. USL and NASL don't hate each other THAT much.

 

That wasn't my point at all. I just read a print piece that quoted Tim Holt and apparently he wasn't completely clued in to this as well. This thing has come completely out of left field for everyone, even including the few that knew that VSI had some ambition.

So my point is if this was a done deal (which it isn't) AND Orlando City and the USL knew about it, then they would have been much more interested in promoting a rivalry with Tampa VSI and not the Rowdies.

 

They're friendlies. There is absolutely no reason to scrap the plans just cuz VSI comes along. I have no idea where you get this notion that there should be some kind of preferential treatment. It's PRESEASON. It doesn't mean anything.

 

I know exactly what they are, however, certain elements in the OC and Rowdies fanbase think these are the second coming of the Old Firm. The point, which you miss again, is that this has caught everyone off guard. If the folks from VSI were talking to their brethern up the road in Orlando or at the league office for that matter, don't you think that it would be far more likely for them to cooperate in league than to partner up with the Rowdies? I do. It doesn't really matter at this point, because VSI hasn't even announced what they are doing for 2013.

 

USL and NASL need to merge. Quite simple. The owners of these clubs need to make this happen.
It would only benefit soccer in America. What is the USSF thinking? What kind of leadership is Sunil Gulati providing? Club owners need to take the bull by the horns and come together, it would make so much logical sense.

 

You do realize that it was the owners of USL teams that rebelled against USL, right? That was just a couple of years ago. There is a slim to none chance that they will merge the leagues any time soon. It really is not up to USSF either, it is up to the leagues and team owners. They are finally coalescing into regular D2 and D3 parts of a pyramid. The NASL has absolutely no incentive to merge with USL Pro. USL Pro has no need to merge with the NASL. The owners are free to move leagues if they want, so the owners of the teams could move leagues if they so desired, so it really is about the owners, not the leagues necessarily. Owners in each league see a reason to stay in that league, and these reasons vary.

 

It's not an either/or question. They can do both. What purpose would be served by refusing to play friendlies against the Rowdies?

 

The USSF is the GOVERNING body. As it is now, it is completely dysfunctional.
Yes it is about the owners and not the leagues, you are correct.
That is my point.

 

Its looking exactly like something like this. They appear to be attempting to drop this bombshell and either expect Tampa Bay to jump on it (who knows, maybe they will but I doubt it now) or they've pulled yet another in a long line of media stunts perpetrated by USLpro ownership sides.

If it is the latter, I just hope they aren't doing damage to any future, legitimate attempt to bring MLS to Tampa Bay.

 

And by certain elements, you obviously mean a handful of posters. Here. On Bigsoccer, right?

the vast majority of us just think it makes sense to play the next biggest pro team in Florida which h happens to be 90 minutes down the road and we intend to have a great deal of fun with it.

 

Exactly. It will be fun. I plan on going to the one in St. Pete, maybe the one in Orlando if I can work my schedule out. A couple posters (ok, maybe two or three) really need to be careful or they are going to stroke out in anticipation of meeting our 'rivals'.....which we have never met until now. And have no meaningful competition planned in the future.

 

Found this on a haitian website

Bitiélo Jean Jacques s'engage pour deux ans avec le VSI

Mercredi, 19 Décembre 2012
Membre de la sélection haïtienne U-17 participante à la phase finale de la coupe du monde U-17 de la FIFA, Corée 2007, Bitiélo Jean Jacques, né à Port-au-Prince le 28 décembre 1990 (21 ans), 1m70 pour 73 kilos, a paraphé un contrat de deux ans en faveur de l’équipe de VSI Tampa évoluant dans la United League Soccer (USL)

 

For those that do not read French:

Bitiélo Jean Jacques is committed to two years with the VSI

Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Member of the Haitian U-17 selection participant in the finals of the World Cup U-17 World Cup Korea 2007 Bitiélo Jean Jacques, born in Port-au-Prince December 28, 1990 (21 years), 1m70 for 73 kilos, has signed a two-year contract for the VSI team playing in the Tampa United Soccer League

 

Jean Jacques used to play for River Plate Puerto Rico and Victory Sportif de Jacmel

 

And I'm not sure it would make an impact either way.

The "NASL heritage" names that have been resurrected have been with organizations with money and clues. Had Chivas USA's people brought back the LA Aztecs name (or if they do, which I wouldn't expect), it's very likely their current organization wouldn't be substantially different - if at all different - from how it is today.

NASL names are great for nostalgiaphiles and those who use retro as a method of belying their own inexperience. We don't know that Seattle, Portland, Vancouver and San Jose would have been substantially different, at the end of the day, under other names. We just don't.

The Rowdies name didn't make a substantial impact on the fortunes of a D2 team playing in a baseball stadium in St. Petersburg. The Strikers name - one of many improvements Ft. Lauderdale's D2 team made - may have had an impact on its fortunes, but it's hard to determine exactly how much (some fanboys think it's made "all the difference in the world," ignoring what happens when you actually make an effort with a club as opposed to just letting it fend for itself). In both cases, those two brands are now attached to teams that are either average or slightly below-average performing D2 organizations, based on historical numbers. We'll have to see what happens with the Cosmos name, but it if were attached to the people who ran FCNY, it wouldn't have been enough, by itself, to make that a successful organization.

It's not all about the name.

 

This argument again? By and large I don't see people claiming it makes "all the difference." As I have said before, all other things being equal, such as your example with the Strikers about finally doing some of the right things in running their club, in some places, that NASL heritage does make a difference in marketing your team. In South Florida, the name Ft. Lauderdale Strikers is the easiest brand to use to market a pro soccer team because it has history, and people recognize the brand. Same goes in Tampa. Same will go in NY. Again, assuming the right things are being done in either case, having a brand with recognition and history is always easier to market than one nobody has ever heard of. I don't think anyone, maybe not even WSW, would be willing to say that hanging a shingle with an NASL heritage name is all it would take to be successful in these markets. But I defy anyone to logically explain why it would hurt to use one of these names over a new one in one of these markets. Obviously you can't make this case in every market, but the Cosmos were the biggest name in the old NASL, and the Strikers and Rowdies were on the next level down from them.

 

Oh, here it was:

And....my point was...doing the right things makes much more of an impact.

Again...two brands that largely passed out of relevance in the early 1980s. Meaning no one under the age of 30 (a large part of today's target audience for this sport) could possibly have meaningful memories of the actual heydays of those brands. They're either posing (as many young people do) or it doesn't really resonate with them.

Didn't say it would hurt.

Said some overrate its actual effect.

You, yourself have admitted that there was a downturn in advertising and marketing this year year for the Strikers. Same brand. Same stadium. Resulting drop in attendance. Having done this before, I can tell you the brand doesn't hurt, but it isn't going to make up for basically leaving an organization to fend for itself, as Traffic did with Miami FC. Actually acting like a pro organization that makes an effort goes much, much farther than just resurrecting an old brand.

As for Tampa...same basic organization. Winning team. Finally got control of the brand. Very small uptick in interest and attendance. All other things, basically, were equal. But these brands don't speak to people under 30 the way they do to you and me.

My entire point: don't overrate the actual impact of NASL brand resurrection. Doing things the right way goes a much longer way towards success than the brand itself does. Tampa is a huge case in point, and Ft. Lauderdale is a fairly good one. Both are ehhhh-level DII organizations based on historical numbers.

 

Oh, here it was:

 

Another thing you have to keep in mind is maybe for him it did make the difference. He is someone who sat through those Miami FC games down in Dade with like 300 people in the stands. Opening day 2011 when we had 6,500 at Lockhart for the return of the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers, I bet it felt to him and the other hard core supporters who suffered the years before like a world of difference was going on around them. I'll grant that a lot of them aren't old enough to have a frame of reference to the original version. But honestly, as someone who does, I really appreciate the fact that they have embraced the Strikers tradition as their own. It's obvious from your posts that you're very ehhhhh on the whole nostalgia thing. But I happen to think it's pretty damn cool they can make a killer tifo with pictures of Ray Hudson, Nene Cubillas, George Best, and so on and so on. When the team was Miami FC, or even the Miami Fusion (both making the critical mistake of playing in Ft. Lauderdale, at Lockhart, but using the name "Miami") they couldn't have done those things. Even if the connection is something conjured up in people's minds, I say so what. You call them posers, but I look at it as respecting what has come before. Just because the team was gone for a period of time, that doesn't erase what came before. Is it only ok for me to teach my son about the history and tradition of the Chicago Cubs, like my father and grandfather taught me, because there was no break in the timeline of their existence? I think that's worrying too much about semantics. I've watched over time as young people seem to care less and less about the past, what came before, what they have and enjoy today was built on. I think that's a shame. So when we've got some younger people actually caring about what came before, I find it refreshing.

I barely knew Miami FC existed and only saw a handful of games. But as soon as they rebranded and I had a chance to take my son to watch the Strikers just like me Dad had taken me all those years ago, I became a season ticket holder for a sports team for the first time in my life. We are in agreement that if the only thing a club does is rebrand to one of these NASL legacy names, it isn't going to work out. But I'll bet dollars to donuts that in the right markets, a club doing things the right way and using an original NASL name like the Strikers, Rowdies, or Cosmos will outperform a club that is also doing the right things to operate the team, but with a brand new name.