Villareal vs Real Madrid | La Liga | Matchday 4 | 09/14/13 | 22:00 (Local)

plyka · Sep 16, 2013

Umar said: ↑

I also think I know why Ronaldo is struggling (relatively speaking) in the early stages of the season.

Last year, he would get the ball in a deep position off Xabi Alonso, he would have both Benzema and Ozil nearby him to support and give an easy short pass. Now, he invariably gets the ball higher up the pitch from Modric, and Benzema would be the only short forward option for him. So it's not necessarily the quality of the supporting cast that has changed (as @plyka might suggest), but the number of supporting players available quickly.

(Of course there's also the drop-off in quality from Marcelo to Nacho, which will of course impact on his play).

It'll take him some time to automate his decision as to when to attack the last line of defence, and when to wait and let the play develop in the midfield phase.
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I'm not worried about Ronaldo scoring goals, he will score and it'll be close to Messi levels --will they be efficient or due to a horrendous number of shots is the main question. Also, you can't deny the absolute magic that Ozil and Ronaldo had together, along with Benz --DiMaria was the weak link in terms of understanding. Now you have only Benz and Ronaldo remaining as starting attackers from that 4 ---even if Isco can prove himself on the same level as Ozil in terms of creativity, you have to assume that there is going to be a dramatic fall off in terms of understanding. Perhaps it will come with time, but you had magic already, I'm not sure I see the reasoning in fudging with that magic. And as a Bale fan (just not down with the timing), I am not sure in how Ronaldo and BAle will work together, since they are very similar creatures.

Bear Crotch · Sep 16, 2013

jeremy123 said: ↑

Great post @Umar

How do you feel about using Isco as a false number 9 a la Totti? I feel he is playing way too deep. We can bring more balance to the midfield if you have Khedira or Casemiro playing with Modric and Illarra in the midfield 3. Isco is not a CM he is an attacking midfielder and should be closer to the goal. The false number 9 formation will also bring out the best out of Bale and Ronaldo coming in from the wings. I think it at least deserves a try.
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I feel Isco as a false 9 would nullify many of his strengths. Ozil would have been a very good false 9 but that ship has sailed.

I know Benzema had a bad match, but our front three was always going to play horribly considering we could barely hold onto the ball in midfield at times.

What I don't understand is how we could go from what we saw in preseason to this. I know it's preseason, but damn the defending in midfield was phenomenal. I'm not sure if Pepe is truly on the decline but if he is that's up to the midfield to shield hide him as much as possible.

Ramos and Pepe wouldn't be nearly as lambasted if we could rectify a problem we've had ever since I've started following this team: defend as a ********ing unit.

s7kru · Sep 17, 2013

Chinky24 said: ↑

I love my team no matter what. I don't care if we win, lose, or draw, or don't win anything for the next 100 years. I don't need to give input because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Forum posts don't win titles. I'd rather make friends and have fun on here trolling rather than make my time online less enjoyable.
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Chinky24 said: ↑

If plyka lightens up and stops with the moneyball shit, then the only thread titles we have left are:
Jeremy123: Meltdown-Countdown 2013 OTT
How to Lose a Jeremy in 10 Days
10 Things Jeremy123 Hates About Madrid
Titles Are Won in September OTT
Full Metal Jeremy
Creedence Demogorgon Revival OTT
Demo's Lost in Translation
EXCLUSIVA: Jeremy and Demo
Real Madrid Castilla OTT: How Demo Got Her Groove Back
Saadomar's Wheel of Thread Title Fortune
EXCLUSIVA: Crimson's Dick Pix
TheBiscuitman OTT and Teams We've Never Heard Of
All Sass and No Ass: Demogorgon 2013
Pics or You're Ugly: Real Madrid BS Female OTT
I'm Higher than a ********ing Geosynchronous Orbit Satellite: Anticule OTT Discussion Thread
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What about ''SELL Ronaldo and Bale and GET SHITKO'' OTT Thread?

Benchwarmer of Man City > Ronaldo and Bale...

...said no one ever.

s7kru · Sep 17, 2013

Bear Crotch said: ↑

I feel Isco as a false 9 would nullify many of his strengths. Ozil would have been a very good false 9 but that ship has sailed.

I know Benzema had a bad match, but our front three was always going to play horribly considering we could barely hold onto the ball in midfield at times.

What I don't understand is how we could go from what we saw in preseason to this. I know it's preseason, but damn the defending in midfield was phenomenal. I'm not sure if Pepe is truly on the decline but if he is that's up to the midfield to shield hide him as much as possible.

Ramos and Pepe wouldn't be nearly as lambasted if we could rectify a problem we've had ever since I've started following this team: defend as a ********ing unit.
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it was not entirely the problem of the defenders, as the midfield couldn't intercept any balls and that was one of the main reasons why the Villarreal players were easily dribbling through them. If all 3 midfielders didn't know whether they should be defending or attacking, the coach's clearly responsible for that.

TumE · Sep 17, 2013

I've been following this forum for a while and now decided to join in.

People are pressing the panic button after we draw at Villarreal after an NT break. Villarreal will be a europa league team come next season (They have the quality) and had 2 weeks of nothing. While all our players were with NT's and few got injured. Add to that, Villarreal play excatly the type of game that has been killing us for as long as I can remember.

You can delude yourself's and go hysteric about this game. You can also say that we are playing the worst football ever. All which is total bullshit and makes you look like an ignorant fool who:
1. Doesn't know anything a bout football
2. Doesn't understand that team gelling takes ALOT more time then a few preseason friendlies.
3. Has never done any sport, NT games and travelling are more demanding physically than normal league games.
4. The other team is on the pitch as well and hey, they can play good, even great (which was the case with Villarreal) and by playing can actually get a result.

Or ball retetition is already better than it ever was with Mou, so is our movement in the final third. The defence has been all around the place, but that given with the ever changing MF. Once we gel it will be all good. Until then we have enough individual talent to get us through the league games.

Eddie · Sep 17, 2013

I like you, welcome to the board!

Zidane05 · Sep 17, 2013

4x4s said: ↑

These are totally irrelevant from whether we're playing counterattacking football or not though, that's my point. Our problem is not what we play, it's how we play, and what Ancelotti is doing in my opinion is taking off the width from this team and trying to force an approach the involves a lot of short passes in front of the box. Still, i find if i have Marcelo, Cristiano Ronaldo on my team, and decide to not use the flank to it's full potential (never ming the early subs with Marcelo, never understood that), you're not doing it right
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Not really, spacing is much less of an issue with counterattacking football where with two passes you're on the other end. Positioning is much more important with counter attacking football. With possession style football, spacing and movement off the ball are much more important as you need to provide the ball holder with passing outlets. Many atimes on Saturday, we had the three midfielders disoriented and sitting in one line in our own half, and the front three way up the field making runs, forcing the midfielders to send long, low success rate passes upfield.

I don't think the coach's plan is to play with no width. They're loading up the left side Ronaldo, Isco, and Marcelo when all three are healthy. Ronaldo is playing more inside than he was last year, and the goal is to have Marcelo overlap behind him to provide width. Obviously, you'll have th opponent heavily shifted to the left, leaving tons of space on the right for Bale to go on his runs.

That's the plan. It hasn't worked over the course of a full game yet, but we're so early in the season. I'm much less worried about the team offensively than I am defensively. Too many breakdowns defensively on Saturday. Zero pressure from the front 3. Benzema loses the ball, and doesn't bother prressing the defender, same with the other two. The midfielders were forced to push much higher than they should have, which worked perfectly in the Villarreal's plan.

4x4s said: ↑

We did? He won the Copa del Rey at his first season. He won the League in his second season, and was fired at his third, and trophyless season.
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Meh, my bad. I realized he won the Copa as soon as I posted that. The point still stands, coaches were fired after winning La Liga with the same style that he was playing.

4x4s · Sep 17, 2013

TumE said: ↑

People are pressing the panic button after we draw at Villarreal after an NT break. Villarreal will be a europa league team come next season (They have the quality) and had 2 weeks of nothing. While all our players were with NT's and few got injured. Add to that, Villarreal play excatly the type of game that has been killing us for as long as I can remember.
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Villareal bought about 5 players of average quality compared to the team that Castilla comfortably beat last season. They spent less on all of their business this summer than we spent on Isco.

There are no excuses. Villareal are an average team that is playing for a comfortable finish to the season.
Every time we drop point, either the excuse "they were really up for it, they are a great team" will pop up, or a "their goal keeper saved everything", or how about "the referee!".

We played crappy, and that's the bottom line. Whether we'll keep playing like this, is anybodies guess, but i'm not going to spend 100s of millions in the summer and complain about the international break or a handful of injuries against a team from the Segunda Division.

4x4s · Sep 17, 2013

Zidane05 said: ↑

I don't think the coach's plan is to play with no width. They're loading up the left side Ronaldo, Isco, and Marcelo when all three are healthy. Ronaldo is playing more inside than he was last year, and the goal is to have Marcelo overlap behind him to provide width. Obviously, you'll have th opponent heavily shifted to the left, leaving tons of space on the right for Bale to go on his runs.
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We're not providing Ronaldo with the quality chances that we were last season. I think Isco will comfortably score more goals than all our "10s" of the past few years, but i don't see him as the player that will manage the midfield and deliver the top notch pass every few minutes. That's Modric' job, and he seems to be very busy in holding the midfield together.

natenate101 · Sep 17, 2013

4x4s said: ↑

Villareal bought about 5 players of average quality compared to the team that Castilla comfortably beat last season. They spent less on all of their business this summer than we spent on Isco.

There are no excuses. Villareal are an average team that is playing for a comfortable finish to the season.
Every time we drop point, either the excuse "they were really up for it, they are a great team" will pop up, or a "their goal keeper saved everything", or how about "the referee!".

We played crappy, and that's the bottom line. Whether we'll keep playing like this, is anybodies guess, but i'm not going to spend 100s of millions in the summer and complain about the international break or a handful of injuries against a team from the Segunda Division.
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There has been plenty of criticism in this thread over MADRID's performance, so not sure big excuses are being made. Tons of people have said we played crappy. But they must be given some credit, they played well enough to get the draw and score 2 goals. We have and will play shitty against many teams who still won't have enough to get a point and play well doing it. They did, salute to the them and we've got plenty of work to do.