I'd take Sahin for RvP in a heartbeat, though it's a deal that will never happen. I think RvP will ride out the year then go to Juve on a free
I never really thought that RVP was leaving and still don't. I wonder how much RVP really wanted to leave. I also wonder if the rather strong summer by Arsenal has perhaps convinced RVP that Arsenal do have ambition. We spent 30 million pounds without any notable sales. Next to Chelsea, who HAD to make some big moves, we spent the most of any club. RVP is almost certain to get injured again this season at some point. Statistically it is inevitable. However the big difference this season is that we will have relatively proven alternate options. RVP won't have the weight of the world on his shoulders and I think that will benefit him.
We need to get a little more proactive about getting RvP out. Under no circumstances should he be allowed to run down his contract. I'd take a swap with Sahin if Real tossed in 5m.
Why is it so critical that we send him out? IMO, there is a baseline price the needs to meet to be worth sending him away. If, for example, the best offer we get is 10 million pounds, then his value to the club this season outweighs the revenues received for him.
Captaincy issue for one. Lack of cohesion. Conflict of interests. Loss of income. Loss of opportunities to develop players with a shelf life longer than 9 months. I agree that we shouldn't get bent over but he needs to sign a three year deal (with protections for us in the event of long absences due to injury) or get sold. Simple as.
Captaincy is irrelevant. If it is such a big deal, which it isn't, give it to someone else. Lack of cohesion based on what? RVP making a statement that made no reference to other players? Loss of income is dependent on how much we are talking about. And I don't even know how to respond to the last statement. Loss of opportunities to develop other players? Seriously? And if our choice is to let him walk next year for nothing or get 10 million quid this year, what would you like them to do?
nah, you said he is going to City. I dont think he is. I dont know where he will end up, but I will put up $50 that its not City.
Strip him of the captaincy and keep him? You have to either let a wantaway player keep the captaincy or you have to strip the captaincy from a player whom you expect to keep around. Neither option sounds great. Sorry, when he said the team's direction was wrong, do you think he meant "these players are all great and can win stuff but the new kits suck butt and thus we will not challenge"? Or do you not think that his current teammates got the picture that he doesn't think they are good enough? Just because he didn't name names, the message was clear. Agreed but you are balancing the known and the unknown. Is RvP good for one spot in the table? Two? Silverware? 15 and up, I think you sell. Below that... at some point you stand pat but I don't know where. If you stand pat, are you still trying to sign him to an extension or just letting him go? He'll be free to sell himself in January so you have only the narrowest of windows for exclusive negotiations and both sides have their biggest shared concern (his health) a complete unknown with a good chunk of the season yet to pass. Well, not that seriously. My life is not so boring that anything on here is that serious but in relative terms? Sure. RvP is effectively a loan player once the window closes. You have a great deal of depth up front. Why not be focused on players with an Arsenal future instead of someone on the way out? You have limited training and game time to build team strength. You want the team to be stronger in January than in August, in the Cup final than in the early stages, etc... I would rather have the guys we can depend on be fully blooded as early as possible. Would you pay 10 million to take RvP on loan for a year? That is effectively the question. I do not think that RvP is worth a 10 million pound loan deal, personally, but you are getting close to that range so I could see it either way.
Well he was worth about 30 million pounds for us last year. IMO, dealing RVP away gives the entirely wrong signal to the club. Of course finances are important but so is winning. And letting your top player leave for 10 million pounds is not what a club the size of Arsenal does. Heck it's not something Spurs would do. It's something that QPR or Wolves would do.
We did it with Gallas. Anyway, i'd say let him keep it. He didn't say he no longer wanted to play for Arsenal, he just said he wasn't signing a new contract. So you would take 15 million from ManU for RVP? Sell our best player to a rival club who he could help a bunch? Just so you don't lose out on a few million pounds? What would that do to the morale of the team, and the morale of the fans. Wouldn't it be nice to bring those guys along slowly? You would rather throw out a bunch of guys who have never played together and have only trained for a few weeks? FFS the season starts in a week and a half! 1o million pounds to take the leagues top scorer for a year on a reasonable wage? Yeah, that sounds good to me. ManU paid 10mil a year for Tevez on a ridiculous wage, and they signed that deal when he had a grand total of 7 league goals.
Anti, I rarely agree with you, but you got me with that last point. And I also think that the morale of the team and the morale of the fanbase is an underrated aspect that shouldn't be overlooked. Right, because when a player wants to continue playing for a club, they often turn down the opportunity for a new contract (possibly even before one has been offered)? While I think he's well within his rights to have his opinion and I don't think he was necessarily disrespectful to the club, I do think he was absolutely saying he does not want to continue playing for the club.
Paul Pierce recently announced that he would not be extending his deal with the Celtics and will test free agency when his deal is up. No one interpreted that as him saying he no longer wants to play for the Celtics. As far as Van Persie, i would take that gamble on keeping him til his contract runs out. I think that remaining with Arsenal will be a more attractive option a year from now than it is currently.
There is a huge difference between saying you do not want to sign another contract and saying you do not want to play with the club. If RvP did not want to play for the club, he would put in a transfer request. I just don't think he wants to be tied down to the club for another 3,4,5 years.
I submit that his letter was his "P.R. friendly" way of handing in a transfer request, but that's OK if we disagree. I would still love to keep him, and agree with Anti that remaining with Arsenal will look more attractive a year from now.....so you never know.
It was and it wasn't. I'd say it was more a case of chumming the water, he knew that this was his chance for a big money move, so he said come and get me. Thing is, no one has.
I don't see it that way at all. This issue to me is there is no other way for him to communicate his decision not to renew his contract to his fans without doing what he did it. He basically said 1) I want you all to know from me that I will not renew 2) I have not even discussed money with the club yet 3) I'm not renewing because I think there is a difference in the direction I would like the club to go and the direction that club plans on going. I don't see that as a transfer request at all simply because I appreciated hearing the decision from him so it could not be distorted rather than through the media, and I don't know any other way he could have done it differently.
Gallas had the captaincy removed because he wasn't up for it. Not because he wanted out. And I agreed with your take before but the explanation for the release of the statement was that he was frustrated with Wenger for not working on moving him. That tells me that either he doesn't want to fulfill his contract or he believed that his position was now untenable. If that is not the case and he simply did not want to re-sign, why announce? That was an effort to seek a move or as you said "chum" the water. About the same as it will do if he agrees to a deal in January but we'll have 15 million less to have soothed the wounds. Not sure that 15 million is really worth claiming some imaginary high-ground. You want to improve team morale and fan support, take the money and buy someone that makes the story who we bought, not who we sold. These guys have played soccer before. Goals are still at the end of the pitch and still 11 per side. They are smart lads, they'll figure it out. We play the same 11 so rarely that, if these guys cannot adjust to a new face or two, we can just hang it up. That's fair, I just am not sure I would.
He thought he could line up a double your money move and it didn't work out. I don't hold that against him. If you want him gone because he is disloyal or something, you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face. He can only agree to a deal in January with a foreign team, if that happens it's fine with me. A much better result than putting 15 mil in the bank and watching him knock in goals for ManU and help them win trophies. How much would a trophy be worth next season? For us, a shitload more than 15 million. Imagine him scoring a hat trick against us in the FA Cup Final. Would you be soothed saying at least we got that money in the bank? It doesn't really work that way does it? You know that. Basically you're saying forget this season, hopefully we will gel by January and maybe compete for the League next year.
This is why I would like to keep him: That and us being very seriously in title contention with him. I know it's been said but Rooney did this, some former Gunners have done it. It's not like Arsenal doesn't do it to players all the time. This is their business. As fans, we only care whether they want to stay when they are really f'n good (Clichy). While he screwed up, if signed an extension tomorrow I don't think I could contain my excitement for this coming year.
I want him gone because, without a new contract, the sample size is 1. One roll of the dice. One spin of the roulette wheel. With 15 million riding on it. His average season, prior to last year, was 22.3 league appearances and 9.4 goals for a .423 goals per league game average. Last season the numbers were 38, 30 and .789 Only one of those players is worth a 15 million pound roll of the dice and you are betting on the exception. If he was on a three year contract, you get more rolls of the dice but his decision makes this a bad bet. And we both know that Sir Alex will use his pals in the press to make a verbal agreement public knowledge whether a pen has touched paper yet or not. We all knew where Ade, Nasri, Cesc, Hleb, Henry, Toure et al were going long before a pen was put to paper. Difference is, we didn't ask them to play their new employers after we all knew where they were going. And can you guarantee that we can win a trophy with, and only with, RvP? This is why I said this is a battle between the known and the unknown. Even if we do win something, the minute RvP leaves the press, as you seem to be doing, will give all of the credit to him. Sure, they'll have a medal but the whole team will feel like a bunch of Pippens. This is a good team, they don't have to be dependent upon him and some of them have the confidence to want to do this without him. If we are free to imagine things, imagine the team's confidence if they win that FA Cup without having to rely on him to score a hat trick. In the face of his departure, they give a big V to the pundits and win this on their own. Your scenario means that every bit of confidence gets trashed when the hat trick hero leaves. It will just reaffirm that the best players do leave and our confidence with them. He is one guy. How does one guy leaving mean we are the Keystone Cops until January? Did we sign morons who need five months to figure out how to play together? And are you saying that if RvP gets crocked, we are all screwed, we can just wait until January to see us play well and the season ends on whatever day RvP tears a ligament? All that money spent and we are still a one man team? If nothing else, we just signed two experienced internationals who are quite used to adapting to different players and tactics. They do it every time they leave their club for a friendly. they'll be fine. I just think that Arsene has built a post-RvP team and I say let's get the new era started now. This team has far more depth and talent than we have had in years. RvP is a good player who had a single great season. We were not nearly so well equipped to survive the departures of Cesc or Henry and yet we were fine with little to no substantial early spending. This time we have planned for it and bought to more than cover. This new version of Le Boss wants to prove a lot of people wrong and I don't think money from his sale will sit in a back account. 15 million can be reinvested and pay dividends not just for a single year but for many years. If RvP will give us a chance to make our money back and sign a new deal, great. But I don't think his past warrants a single roll of the dice. He doesn't think so either and hence the desperate ploy of his sad "come get me" to which few have responded.