Post-match: USMNT vs Russia: Second Viewing Analysis

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Ironkick14, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    Dempsey's playmaking ability? Demps is a black hole when it comes to playmaking. He is a finisher, he is well aware where he is and if he senses a body check he will go down for the FK.

    Donovan is a playmaker but he is more of a "last pass before the shot" type of playmaker. Probably the best playmaker is the guy you think of the least...MIX.


  2. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    I thought MB used to play the "6" back when he used to play in Germany. The guy can defend, for him to play the "6" JK needs to find a better MB to play the "8", otherwise MB is our "8"
  3. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    #1 Feilhaber and Adu Member+

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    The worst jones attackers are the biggest bradley loyalists. Its not suprising to go through the pbp thread and see the same 5 posters keep posting how he sucks and he should be take off the field and even The team. That was then followed by a greatness post about bradley. Some people are just trying to hard. At that point it becomes obvious of the agenda.
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  4. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    #1 Feilhaber and Adu Member+

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    Its good your doing this. Its better for everybody to see the real truth behind JJ's play. With the homebase ussoccer journalist movement against him (ranked #17 top us player) for a player who not only plays for schalke but plays in the same club midfield that all just got called up to Germany.


  5. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    There is a reason Jones is put in marker on any teamsheet we have along with Bradley, Dempsey, Donovan and Howard.
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  6. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

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    Quickly? We've seen it for two years.

    Look, here's what it comes down to for me:

    - is the US better with 3 central midfielders or 4 attackers? I'd rather have 4 attackers and use 3 man central midfields situationally.

    - because the US is better with 4 attackers, one of the central midfielders should sit. For me, based on current form, Bradley's a lock.

    - Bradley being a lock means you can either pair him with another 8, ask Bradley to be a 6, or put a 6 behind Bradley. I think Bradley is at his best with a 6 behind him. It gives Bradley the most freedom to get forward.

    - so the question comes down to who the 6 should be? Williams has played very well against Jamaica and Guatemala, but he's young and inconsistent in a position where inconsistency is a killer. So I'm willing to try Jones there. But if he doesn't adjust his style to be a 6, then you're back to the same dual 8s that hasn't worked since the Gold Cup.

    - I'm open to 3 man midfields to protect results and to kill off games. I'm open to them against tough away opponents to keep the US tight at the beginning of the game. But if Jones wants to be part of that midfield, I'd give him the same criticism Loew did. Calm down, be less hectic, and play more precisely.

    - I thought Jones was pretty damn good as a wide left midfielder. Never saw that coming.
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  7. StrikerX4

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    Without a doubt, Jones played well in many facets of the game against Russia. He pressed well, he got forward and created chances, and he covered a lot of ground.

    However, I can't see how people are denying that he and Bradley as a pair isn't ideal. They make the same type of runs, and neither of them is great at taking guys off the dribble (although with Jones frenetic play, he sometime manages to go THROUGH guys). This situation is very similar to Lampard and Gerrard a few years back with England. Both bring great individual qualities that are on full display during the game, but you can't help but think a different pairing with just one might produce better results.

    It's not that we struggle throughout the game with both JJ and MB (in fact they produce some good moments together with their high pressure), it's just that adding another attacker in place of one of them would seem in my view to be more effective for us in the final 3rd. (And before anyone asks, I don't know who that attacker should be yet! :D)
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  8. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    I was wondering if I was the only guy to see this. I was surprised he wasn't called for a foul when he literaly beat two guys at the end of regulation. I see Jones being a good defender that wants to be forward but doesn't quite have the skill for the position, in other words he is not a good finisher, he is a good passer but most of those has been from the middle to long range variety, I think he needs to develop a short pass game like Mix if he is going to be successful at the Forward or AM position. His biggest asset when he play higher and wide is his crosses, that is a plus in his arsenal.

    The players that I see doing well as a true "8" or false "9" are Mix, Agudelo, Corona, so happens those players are part of the U23 core.
    I think that the team is missing is a true AM one that can pass and score from distance. Mix may be the answer but he still raw.
  9. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    From my view, I thought Gomez was coming back the most to help the midfield regain possession.
  10. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    I wouldn't be so sure. Dempsey was so gassed and ineffective in the first Jamaica game and did JK pull him out? There is a very small core of players that are excluded from being pulled from a game other than injury. I don't think Jones completely disregarded JK's instructions, he just bends it enough to play the way HE wants to play the position.
  11. TheNearPost

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    I would say that if we were to persist with Bradley and Jones as dual 8's, I wouldn't do it in 4-1-4-1/4-3-3. It might work if we have Donovan and Dempsey as the wingers though, because those two pinching into the middle would link play and give Bradley and Jones somebody to move off of. However, it's probably not smart to ask Donovan and Dempsey to both be so committed defensively. Donovan due to injuries starting to pile up, and Dempsey because the further he is from goal, generally the worse.

    I would prefer we use either the 4-2-3-1 we saw against Guatemala or the diamond we saw against Russia (after substitutions). Either way, we had two strikers on the field, and we looked pretty good. We need players darting into the channels, running at the full backs, taking down long balls, and occupying the whole backline. We did that without losing control of the midfield. I think that's probably the way to go.
  12. Spursfan1

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    Gomez had trouble adjusting to the role.
  13. StrikerX4

    StrikerX4 Member

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    Yeah, Jones is physically a beast. He's got excellent power and speed. He's also skilled - he has decent vision and as you point out the ability to send good long balls. However, he's not great in tight spaces with either his quick combination passing or his dribbling - which is why when defenses condense near the 18 he sometimes loses control.
  14. polska26

    polska26 Member

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    The Bradley Jones partnership does work. Putting Jones in cb would be a bold move by Klinnsmann
  15. StrikerX4

    StrikerX4 Member

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    There's no evidence to suggest that this would or should be tried. Jones is an effective MF for club and country. Why move him to CB?
  16. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Is the US better with 3 or 4 center mids?

    Italy was beaten with Williams, Jones, Bradley, and Edu in the starting lineup.

    Mexico was beaten with Beckerman, Jones, Torres, and Williams.

    Scotland were of course clobbered with Torres, Edu, Jones, and Bradley.

    There's certainly plenty of utility in using the 4 centermids.

    Where does the meme that Dempsey is a black hole come from? He's not a final ball player but he's frequently in the passing sequences leading to scores at club level(with Fulham) and international level.
  17. Spursfan1

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    Fulham is scoring so many more goals without him now.
  18. IndividualEleven

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    Dembele was a black hole too? Maybe the addition of Berbatov and a few others helps to make a difference...
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  19. TheNearPost

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    Actually, Jones was not in the starting lineup against Italy. He didn't even feature that day, if I'm not mistaken. Moreover, we lined up in a 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 shape that day. Italy was actually the side that featured four central midfielders

    The U.S. saw it's best spell without Jose Torres or Danny Williams on the field, although Williams did some VERY admirable work defensively, so he definitely contributed. You could say we were more defensively stable when we had four central midfielders.

    Torres was a wide midfielder against Scotland. He came inside quite a bit, to the other flank at times, but he usually defended wide left.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a 4-4-2 diamond with four central midfielders. In fact, I've been advocating it. I just want the facts straight.
  20. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Which match are you talking about?
  21. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

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    We've played our best soccer out of the 442 skinny diamond. I think it should be looked at as the future starting point. From there you can go to the 4231 or 433 if you don't like how we are looking defensively. Either way, the spine of the defense is the use of a true 6. Count me with those that want Jones playing a conservative 6, and putting another more attacking player next to Bradley.
  22. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member

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    In my second viewing, I noticed how invisible Gomez was and how hard working Jozy was against the Russian defense, winning lots of headers and doing a good job holding up the ball. At least the first 60 minutes.
  23. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't share you assessment of Dempsey's play in Jamaica.
  24. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member

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    Maybe Zusi? I get the sense that if GZ was asked to pull the trigger more, he'd be a good scorer.
    On the match, one thing I haven't seen mention, but Jozy was a beast for us winning balls in the air in the midfield. He won a ton of cleared balls and was able to nod them down to a teammate. It went unnoticed, b/c it was in the middle of the field. But, it was pretty valuable to us.

    That said, if we're going to play 4-3-3, I'd like to see Jozy given a shot at playing winger - the way EJ did. I think Jozy is better at taking people on than EJ. (I'm a EJ fan). And, Jozy doesn't get many touches as the lone striker in this formation.
  25. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

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    You need a third viewing then. Jozy was playing a different role than Gomez, a role where he was going to get a lot more action.

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