USL Pro news, rumors, and wishful thinking

Re: Updated USL Expansion news

I'd like to hope that by spring things will have stabilized some, but with question marks still in St. Louis and Baltimore and Miami's continued crappy attendance, I'm still not hopeful. That interview with the guy in Phoenix was interesting. But I'm expecting that we'll get at least another two or three more years of this, more likely five.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Good article. It sounds like those folks in Victoria are going about things the right way, building a foundation and carefully choosing their way forward, and upward. Interesting that the more recent stories involving potential D2 teams (some discussions of Hamilton on another thread) have them looking at the NASL, and not the USL. Don't really know much about Victoria, but do they have the ability to jump right from PDL to D2?

Something else about that last statement from Finerty too. He talks about dominoes falling into place once the USSF makes some dcisions about D2. And yet, both he and the guy leading the Hamilton group, Young I believe, are both talking about the NASL. Not USL, not USSF D2, the NASL specifically. Makes you wonder if there isn't more already in place behind the curtains than we know out here.

Re: Updated USL Expansion news

I might be a bit biased but Miami FC has something going for it that St. Louis and Baltimore do not, something that could instantly re-energize the local fanbase - their rebrand to an historic name and kit. This has been discussed in a few places on these threads, so I won't go long-winded here about it. But long story short, with just a bit of local advertising, the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers could be very well supported. I am going to go out on a limb and predict 2,000+ for Miami's next home game on the 14th against the Rowdies. Picking up some points in their three road matches leading up to it would be a big help too!

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Phoenix Monsoon & Western Soccer Conference

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPxKL2pRwFI"]YouTube- Phoenix Monsoon Soccer: Stuart Starkey Interview[/ame]

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Sounds like they are looking at a regional D2 set up. Is the NASL looking to do the same?

Also I have seen somewhere that USSF was meeting around Aug. 9th to start laying out the future guidelines. Can't remember where I have seen that though.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Maybe.

But there's no guarantee that there will be an NASL in 2011, is there? I mean, there really isn't one now, just a collection of like-minded teams who say they intend to be a league if sanctioned. Just looking at it from the outside, it really doesn't appear as if the NASL is any closer to standalone status today than it was on January 1. If there was only one D2 league, Hamilton would either have to play there or go it alone, right?

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Agreed that there are no guarantees about anything, except that D2, in whatever form, is losing two of its top teams next year, and another in 2012. My point was just that the recent activity that has gone on regarding D2 expansion, has been mainly focused on the NASL, not the USL.

Some league is going to be left standing when the dust clears, and it may come down simply to whichever one can attract the most teams. Right now that squarely favors the NASL. Beyond Austin, PR, and the possibilities of NY FC and Antigua, who does the USL have at this point? Even with the apparent loss of Atlanta for 2011, the NASL, at least for the moment, has St. Louis, Carolina, Baltimore, the Rowdies, Miami FC/Strikers, Minnesota, Rochester, Edmonton, and Montreal still for the year. It's a big if for a few of those, but if all those teams survive for 2011, they only need one more to make 10. With Orlando, Phoenix, Victoria, maybe even San Diego as distinct possibilities, I'd say they have the D2 control edge.

So if the NASL is the league that emerges from this, then I think you'd have to consider the decision Austin, PR, NY, and Antigua face - jump to the NASL to stay D2, or drop down to D3 to stay with USL, who from other reports seem to be safe in continuing to control that division. Antigua was said to be applying to NASL before actually joining USL, so I can't think a switch back the other way would be all that much of a surprise. Even if USL tries a strategy of regroup and strengthen their pro teams as D3, and then at some point in the future try to get back D2 sanctioning, there's no guarantee they can convince these teams to follow them.

I just hope those USSF meetings coming up soon bring some clarity.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

In a sort of "tallest midget" scenario, you're right.

They did announce Orlando. I reckon they could get Charleston back up. But of all of those teams, Charleston's the most solid organization.

Unless USL is holding something back, yeah, you're right, they don't appear to have much.

That said, they HAVE beefed up the organization and addressed many of the support issues that caused the TOA folks to breakaway in the first place.

St. Louis is not at all a well cat.
Carolina is looking for local investors.
I can't see Baltimore returning.
The Rowdies appear to be fine, though they're not drawing what they did at first.
Miami's a pit and they can call them the Strikers if they want, but Traffic couldn't sell Mel Gibson a time machine.
Minnesota isn't drawing.
Rochester's fine, I guess.
Edmonton is spending a million on players who were in the PASL and they'll be playing at a 3,500 seat venue.
Montreal will be a lame duck.

Their picture's not so rosy either, unless you compare it to USL.

A - No way all those teams survive for 2011.
B - It's not quantity, it's quality
C - Phoenix is NOT a distinct possibility for 2011. Victoria's people don't seem gung-ho to go up in 2011, either. I wouldn't count on San Diego, though they have been mentioned as a part of the D3ish group Phoenix is trying to pull together for next year. And Orlando has already been announced, which does not mean they'll be able to actually play.
D - And here's the rub: The NASL has one employee, apparently. And there's no proof they can actually administer a league. Traffic is the money, but they've got as much business sense as that guy from Kentucky that won the lottery. Infrastructurally, USL seems to me to have the edge. The only thing they're lacking is - admittedly a big-ticket item - enough viable teams.

Just a guess - I think it's going to go down to the wire again. That's just my take on it.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

As far as the USL - it looks like FC NY will not be Div 2, but USL Div-3. Orlando isn't that safe - as the owners lacrosse team just went bankrupt, wouldn't be surprised if he isn't in financial issues as well. They supposedly have another team coming in the Caribbean - but that doesn't help teams like Austin who are trying to not have outrageous travel costs.

The financial issues in the NASL aren't as bad as everyone (including the USL) have made them out to be. St Louis and Baltimore are righting the ship.....Carolina Railhawks do not have financial issues and have a solid ownership group.

I think that once the NASL situation fixes itself - you will see Miami turning itself around, which is why, I reckon, they decided to change brands. Miami was in a situation with the USL where they were in a lameduck situation with the TOA and didn't see any benefit in investing a lot of money in the team, then this season, with the USSF running things, they are also in a similar situation. With Traffic being one of the majority owners of the NASL, when (or if) they get sanctioning - you will see a different situation with this team.

I agree not all of the teams will make it, as the USSF will put down some pretty stringent Div-2 ownership requirements (net worth especially), which supports your second point (B). San Diego has three groups vying for a team and each league has a group in SD that they are courting.

The Monsoon aren't going to play in 2011 or have a product anyone in this city with support. I think Phoenix's chance right now is Phoenix Pro Soccer, they seem to have a very solid group and know the climate really well, and they are taking the right approach of planning for 2012.

There are also solid groups in Ottawa that are looking at NASL from what I have heard.

I hope that there is a quick fix after the upcoming USSF meetings...but I think NASL will run things another season and let both league fight it out one more year.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

I don't believe that for a second.

Which is why they're looking for investors.

Miami's problems do not appear to me to be the result of "the NASL situation." They've been crap from the get-go, and Traffic either considered pulling the plug this past off-season or made a big show that they were going to pull the plug. I reckon they decided to change brands as a last-ditch effort, figuring the nostalgia thing has worked for some other people to various degrees.

But it doesn't matter in Miami's case. A rebrand isn't going to miraculously make Traffic ticket-sales savvy all of a sudden or make people flock to Lockhart again. Unless they're bringing Gerd Muller back, too.

I'll take that bet right now, here today. Why didn't Traffic invest a lot in the first few years, then? They just don't know what they're doing. Blaming the USL/TOA mess for Miami FC's problems is convenient, but I don't think it's true. They've been a mess from day one.

I would say the next 10 months or so will be very interesting.

You mean "USSF will run things another season," right? I think that has a decent chance of happening, because I don't see that either side is ready to go it alone just yet.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Kenn, you are way more connected than any of us chumps, but you still seem to be giving it your best guess what will happen. Things are in such a state of flux and the amount of smoke being blown by all the potential parties involved makes it hard to see.

That said, I agree with you. Both the potential Division 2 pretenders are on very shaky ground. The promised franchises by the USL may or may not materialize and I saw an interview with the Battery GM and there isn't any chance that they are going back to Division 2. Why would they? They are drawing the same number in Div 3 and they have dramatically reduced their travel budget.

The NASL could retain all its clubs or end up with Edmonton, Montreal and Tampa Bay and no one else. It is that chaotic. Seems if the USSF is really interested in 'saving' division 2 soccer it is going to have to lay down the law. Regionalization is the only way. If I was calling the shots, I would have four regional leagues that included MLS reserve teams to fill out the numbers. That would eliminate much of the plane travel.

Only under this set up would you attract Division 3 or your better run PDL teams (think Des Moines Menace) to move up. I would much rather have the Rowdies play in a regional league and thrive than hope and pray each year that they and enough clubs will return each season.

Then have a playoff system to crown a national champ and be done with it.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

If it's not the only way, it's the only sensible thing I see. I watched this instability for years with the Magic/Rukus/Silverbacks and don't believe there's any other course that will build enough solid franchises to sustain a league. USSF has to make this happen or we're in for another 20 years of the same.

Re: Updated USL Expansion news

The only way that Miami draws over 2,000 is if an extra 500 Rowdies supporters make the trip. Your highest attendance this season is 1,800 and bragging that you are going to be able to crack 2,000 once this season is just sad.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

ain't no way that Garber and Marcos are going to play nice in the same sandbox, so while the idea of MLS reserves becoming part of the USL is a good idea, it won't happen

Re: Updated USL Expansion news

LOL Bragging? Who is bragging? Quite the opposite. The Miami FC ayyendance numbers, as I've stated in other places around here, are frankly, puke-inducing. We are outdrawn by not only every team in this league, but a good dozen or more teams from lower divisions and women's leagues as well. It's incredibly pathetic. But I put the blame squarely on Traffic. They do NOTHING to promote or advertise this team locally. If they put even a pittance into local advertising, they'd crack 2,000 regularly.

I know it's easy for those of you have have higher average crowds to look down your nose at others. But extract your cranium from your rectum just a moment and consider the bigger picture. The NASL needs EVERY organization to strengthen if it is going to be the league that survives the D2 battle. You're so busy hating and being cynical, that you let common sense elude you.

With the rebrand to the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers, this team has the best opportunity it could hope for to become one of the stronger attendance draws in the league, as long as Traffic opens up their wallet and lets Broward, Palm Beach, and Dade know that the Strikers are back. And do you know which other team in the NASL benefits the most from the rebirth of the Strikers? I'll just let you mull that one over...

Re: Updated USL Expansion news

The Miami Ultras are a wee bit sensitive aren't they? I wasn't hating, just thinking it is a tad optimistic that 2,000 people will accidentally find their way to a Miami FC game.

Take a huge, deep, calming breath and think logically. What, if anything, gives you any concrete indication that Traffic will change its ways between now and next season?

My biggest fear is the same as yours. That they will take the beloved brand of the Strikers and ruin it once and for all in Ft Lauderdale. I have been pretty unimpressed with the Rowdies management as well. They have had crowds show up, even though there were some things that they could have and frankly, should have done better.

Hey, I do hope 2,000 show up to your next home match. But then Traffic will probably think they don't need to change a thing.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

If the USSF says it is the only way to do it. Garber would be fine with it (especially if the USSF pays for the adminstration of the league), Marcos is out and the USL will see it is the Federation's way or the highway.

Of course I am counting on the Federation to use common sense, so I might be waiting a bit.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Does anyone know when the announcment will be made as to the decision by USSF on Div. II status? I know InsideMNSoccer said there was to be a meeting within the first two weeks of August between NASL/USL and the USSF but I haven't heard anything else.
I just hope the USSF makes the decision soon so that the clubs will have time to plan for next season.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Lots of egos in Soccer USA, unfortunately

Re: USL 2 expansion?

someone posted that it was going to be August 9 but I dont remember seeing a link or anything official. the sooner the better

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Saw that same interview, and didn't take away "isn't any chance."

Little background: years ago, a former Battery front office person told me, "We'd have made a profit if the owner wasn't intent on spending $400,000 on players and winning the title." Maybe money is in shorter supply now than it was then, and maybe Tony Bakker will occasionally follow the siren's song. After all - they could have dropped to D3 in 2009 or 2008 or 2007 if it was about saving money.

Andrew Bell was on some podcast a while back and said the Battery have no real designs on being bigger than they are, that they felt they were a Division II organization (and a good one). Ultimately, I think that's where they'll end up, whether it's 2011 or later.

It ain't a good idea.

AFAIK, they're going to bring people together and lay out the requirements for D2 for 2011, but they're not going to make a decision then, I don't believe. That would be un-USSF-like.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Any rumors out of Chatanogga? Just throwing it out there. Their NSPL team was pulling average crowds of around 3500 and had a 5000+ crowd recently.

Geographically its isnt any further than most the USL2 teams travel now. They seem to have a good organization but dont know anyting about their goals, aims or if they hate USL or what.

as to the Battery, I speak with the president and owners frequently and the question of moving back up always comes up. They are taking a wait and see attitude. I would be very surprised if they moved back up in 2011. I wouldnt be surprised, once the USSF/USL/TOA/NASL mess gets sorted out, if they move up then. But the renewed rivalry with Charlotte and Richmond is remembered by most fans here in Charleston, and the fans like that.

Re: Updated USL Expansion news

All I'm saying is that there are too many cynical people posting around here, who don't seem to care much one way or the other if D2 even survives. As someone who went to many Strikers matches in Lockhart in the late 70's/early 80's, I think it's pathetic to see the crowds showing up there now to watch pro soccer. Don't get me wrong, the few that come do have passion, but it doesn't take a Quantum theorist to come up with the theory that ZERO advertising of your team leads to extremely poor attendance.

The Strikers rebrand is something that people in South Florida who actually do care about a pro team surviving here can latch onto and attach some hope to. And if you're one of the fans who is old enough to have been to an original Strikers game, it is about as good of an idea as I can think of to try and generate more interest in the team.

I don't remember who it was, but someone else on a different thread here said there was no way Traffic was doing anything to promote the rebrand before the season is over, figuring it would do them no good really to spend the money right now, just wait til next year. Unfortunately from what I've seen following the team this year, I can't disagree that it is likely their course of action. If the plan is to save the money now, and actually go out and spend it in the month or two leading up to next year's opener to get the word out locally that the Strikers playing in the NASL are reborn, then I could begrudgingly accept it.

D2 needs some things that make it relevant, make it somewhat compelling to watch. Rowdies/Strikers could be one of those things. I think trying to schedule friendlies with MLS teams is another good idea. Trying to get MLS somehow involved a bit more in loaning players to D2 would be a positive as well. Survival might depend on at least a couple of things it can hang its hat on while it is waiting for the growth of interest in the sport on the whole to get to a point where it matters just for what it is, like it does in other countries around the world.

I believe Tampa is off to a tremendous start this year, both in attendance and on the field. If they can get a stadium that isn't 1/4 infield dirt, they'd be in even better shape. Any chance of that happening for next year? And I think every Rowdies fan would be crazy not to be rooting just as hard for the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers to become relevant in South Florida again, drawing decent crowds, and improving their roster, as the fans who will wear the Strikers jerseys and come out to cheer for them.

And by the by, I'm not a Miami Ultra.

Re: USL 2 expansion?

Even a dummy can find a solution to a problem given enough attempts at it. Look, I don't know anyone officially connected with Traffic or the Miami FC organization. What I do know is that I have lived in Broward county a long time, I watch the local tv channels, I get the local paper, and I even listen to local sports talk radio. In none of those places over the lifespan of the Miami FC organization have I seen or heard a single advertisement for the team or one of their games. This is THE problem, period. Any other "factors" are residual.

I think Traffic has a chance now, perhaps the last one they are prepared to take even, to throw all their eggs in one basket and see what happens next year. Don't just rebrand the team, with name and kits that evoke the memories of those of us who witnessed the most glorious time of professional soccer in this area. Spend some money and tell the community the Strikers are back, and see what happens. My personal opinion, worth nothing, but given freely nonetheless is that this will significantly increase attendance right off the bat. Then the key is keeping them coming back of course. Lockhart needs improvements. The on field team needs inprovement. But if you can at least get your foot in the door, it has pretty much the best, last chance to make D2 work in this area. Given the above, and scheduling the Tampa Bay Rowdies vs. the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers as the home opener next year would guarantee somewhere in the neighborhood of 5,000 for attendance on that historic night. Go ahead and laugh, but I'm telling you this area could easily support that number.

A few weeks ago I'd have disagreed in a second. But with the activity we've seen in regards to possible new clubs, along with the lack of activity by both the USL and NASL themselves to do anything to strengthen their D2 organizations and make them more attractive, I'm coming around to the idea that just maybe, USSF may have no choice but to stay involved another year. As you said, neither one seems ready to stand completely on its own for 2011 right now. Unless overnight Austin, PR and Antigua were to jump ship to the NASL, AND the NASL could figure out how to keep all of the current teams afloat and ready to play again next year, along with the addition of Edmonton. Then with potential new D2 franchises in Phoenix, Hamilton, Victoria coming in either 2012 or 2013, maybe they could stabilize. Of course nothing is for certain except that there is a seemingly endless supply of uncertainty.