USL???? at it again

Yeah, your fans are awesome, like the hard men in Atlanta. Awesome fans.

And you telling me "you heard it here first," well, if you told me the sun was going to come up tomorrow, I'd set my alarm and get up early just to make sure.

 

SoccerPrime - how about a thread just for WSW & Kenn? This could be an everything thread where only those two could post. Then we could all go there for our daily dose of their back and forth while being able to read the other threads without all the nonsense.

 

How 1984. Interesting.

 

Yeah, Clint Dempsey is crying all the way to the bank on that one.

And while I won't disagree with your overall - in an incredibly over-broad, encompassing way - statement that the US system of development and professional leagues has significant issues that slow the growth that could be, the issues don't revolve around MLS but rather the lack of organization and professionalism below MLS - and in many ways, mostly in the USL Pro, NASL and "MLS Reserve Division."

And league format has nothing to do with it. I personally think the new NASL format is idiotic and confusing - and a very very very poor way of saying "we can't get people to come to our playoff games, so we're not going to have them" - that doesn't really matter.

What matters is that few (VERY few) teams below MLS are good enough in either talent level or coaching system/personnel that MLS clubs with fruit dying on the vine won't loan them out. Why? Not because they don't want to - but rather because there aren't enough coaching staffs/teams/organizations they trust to develop their players. And it isn't because of the coaches - Hankinson in Seattle, Clarke in Carolina, etc. Obviously, the former Carolina coach ain't doin' too bad in MLS.

But just look at the number of MLS players who are on the roster but aren't getting 5-10 games a year. And I mean, just getting on the field - not to mention actual starts or 90 minutes.

Hell, if you want a real reality check, look at the MLS players who don't even get time in the MLS Reserve matches... Yet the 19 best coaching staffs in the US and Canada believe that paying those players $40,000 a year to be practice fodder rather than get the 15-20 (minimum - 24-30 would be better) games a year players need to really figure out their game and develop with any of the hundreds of lower division teams.

FWIW, no, I don't think it is terribly reasonable to expect PDL or NASL sides to be in the discussion, but if you look at it from a "soccer organization that is in the business of sports entertainment" angle, they can be included - especially the ones that have had (or currently have) pro players on their roster.

Sorry for the rant - just wanted to make sure we were clear about what I did and did not agree with WSW on.

BTW, WSW - is your head going to explode if Tim Holt takes the NASL gig? (I know, I know, unlikely, but just figured I'd throw it out there.)

 

Investors are pulling out of the USL? Maybe, but relative to the NASL? Not really. Especially dollar for dollar.

And I'm fairly certain the MLS Reserve thing has more to do with MLS than the USL.

 

You mean, as opposed to pulling out of (rather than working from within) the current somewhat-stable and established league to go it alone, and being rather messy about it in the process - most likely because, rather than what is stated, you were just upset that you didn't get picked to be the new owners?

Gotcha.

And as Kenn said, you might be able to ruin a league, or even a level of play, by acting like idiots (looking evenly at the USL and NASL), the game is a wee bit past being ruined. Frankly, I can't envision a situation where it would happen, especially with all the stadiums that have been built.

 

Doh! Hankinson in San Antonio, not Seattle. How could I confuse Hankinson with Sigi... Or Seattle with San Antonio? Thanks, Yoshou!

 

I can see the cause for confusion.. They are practically twins:

Sigi:


Hankinson:

 

I'm guessing my head got ahead of my fingers and had the "S" right without the rest of it sinking in. Probably because I was trying to remember to mention the guy in Vancouver (Rennie? I'm sure I'm spelling it wrong...) Oh well.

Of course, now that discredits everything else I ever wrote in WSW's eyes, and who can blame him?

 

Tim Holt is not gonna like this ...


IMS: One question that our readers are really interested in: With so many USL PRO clubs within a couple hours ride, what made your organization opt for NASL, considering that there are higher costs to get into the league and higher operating costs?
Simpson: I think that’s a very fair question and I think that we want to be able to play at the highest level possible. We’re not going to pretend to be anybody that we’re not, (or) being first division, but we are going to be a solid second division team. So for me that holds a lot of weight in terms of the United States Soccer Federation, being an official division two club and getting that sanctioning from the USSF. That’s what attracted us mostly.

 

Now if only Rawlins would get off his high horse and see the light. Not to mention the fact that, financially, a strong case could be made for a move up not changing his economics much at all considering what they already spend, and maybe even turn into a net gain.

 

Yes, and realize the folly of staying in a lower league when you could go to a higher league. Like MLS or something. Which Rawlins hasn't talked about. Oy.

 

Let's be real here, shall we? This MLS by 2015 message Rawlins is sending out is a huge load of bullcrap. He took a gamble when he moved the team to Orlando by stating right off the bat that it was MLS or bust. When you look at the situation right now at this moment, he is still a long way away from MLS, if he ever even gets there. The league's priority is NY2. That's not changing. They don't need any other market right now, especially from a tv standpoint with the new deal coming up in a couple years. The league is enjoying success on a level it never has before. They aren't desperate for markets anymore. There is no rush to add more teams, except the one they are focusing all of their time, and a whole hell of a lot of money on in Queens.

They're saying 2016 for NY2. I think that's a very cautious estimate. They might be ready by 2015. But either way, the league doesn't need to be in a hurry after it gets to 20. And it certainly doesn't behoove them in any way to grant 21 without 22 being granted at the same time to keep everything balanced. Looking at everything objectively, not emotionally like some fans are wont to do, it's very easy to see the league being very slow, and very choosy about where it goes for 21 and 22. Hell, they could even very well decide that 20 is good enough for them.

Any way you slice it, Orlando is not getting into MLS in 2015, and 2017 or 2018 is probably the earliest they could hope for. And that assumes Rawlins has everything in place on his end, including a SSS and the right investors behind him and ready to go. given all of this, explain to me why a guy who already is operating his D3 team on a D2 budget, who would instantly have two in state rivals and short, less espensive road trips to (possibly even three if they felt it necessary to bus to ATL), and you would be able to sell the "hype" of moving into a league where their fans would be welcoming in the Rowdies, Strikers, and Cosmos, instead of Antigua, Dayton, and LA Blues...... Just the potential of a three way Florida derby alone should be something very easy to market with your fans. If you think the crowds aren't going to start dropping if they stay status quo with nothing on the horizon for MLS, you're nuts. And all of this doesn't even address the possibility of the rumors going around that USL might turn into MLS's reserve team league. How would that affect Rawlins's plans?

As I've stated multiple times before, it's easy to make a good case for Orlando to play in the NASL. It's not so much about "moving up" as it is about better positioning yourself. God forbid Orlando never makes it to MLS. Are they better off trying to build that Florida derby rivalry, or continuing to operate on a D2 budget in D3 against the likes of Harrisburg where their fans who are so loyal can't even go to watch an away match? Three pro teams within driving distance of each other in the same state, operating pretty much on par with one another, should be playing each other. It's good for the development and economics of all three.

 

Rawlins isn't the only one selling Orlando to MLS.. Garber has also said it multiple times. He likes what Orlando has done and is more than willing to support them getting a MLS team. At this point, the only thing really holding Orlando back is NY2 and the lack of a SSS and it doesn't sound like either one of those will take forever to get in place. At this point, there isn't an incentive for Orlando to move up to NASL. If things go sideways and it becomes apparent they aren't going into MLS, maybe, but until then, why add the extra cost?

 

that's weird, I didn't realize Garber had given much more than a canned response regarding O City. Yes he visited them, but he also visited Ft. Lauderhell. What he has said is positive enough, but let's not paint it like Garber is out there actively giving much of a shit whether or not Orlando City really comes up with the stadium and the money for MLS.

If they do, I'm sure he'll happily take their money. If they don't, he isn't losing sleep over it.

 

IIRC the same canned language was used by Garber when the choice for expansion was between St. Louis and Philadelphia. St. Louis was told "it's not if, but when" and lot's of other pomisingly vague things. I don't put a lot of stock in what Garber says regarding expansion to anywhere except NYC2.

In the end, Philly was the right choice as we all remember what happened with AC St. Louis & Mr. Jeff Cooper...

 

The way I heard it, the franchise was very popular and very rich and eventually became an expansion franchise into the Australian A-League due to there attendance of 12,000 a game. The club then rebranded as North Queensland Fury and to this day they ride on after becoming champions last season after beating the Guam Potatoes FC in the Final.

 

Yeah! Wait, what? Normally I can find the "logic" in your nonsense, but this comment... Where do I even start?

Unless we just keep hearing the same "canned response" over and over with different words and from different people, this is how I understand it as well.
The fact is that unless something major falls apart with NYC2, nobody is leapfrogging them. The league will play with 19 until NYC2 can join. Period. Anybody with half a brain - and possibly even WSW- knows this.
It is possible -maybe even likely- that Orlando was being used to kick things into gear, much like LA is used in NFL stadium negotiations and KC is used for the same purpose in the NHL. That said, MLS is not in the position to burn its potential fans the way those two leagues can. The NFL is an unstoppable juggernaut and can afford to not have a local team in LA and still draw viewers there. The same goes for the NHL in KC, on a smaller scale.
Everything said and done thus indicates that Orlando is on the shortlist for expansion following NYC2. At this point, we have no reason not to trust what is being said by all parties. If a SSS is built and we hit team 22 without Orlando, then we can call bullshit on the league.
The situation in StL was much more complicated than what is happening in Orlando. For one, Cooper didn't have deep enough pockets and couldn't find investors. That's a pretty big issue...

 

I'd love nothing more than for Orlando City to have been used by MLS to keep NY2 on the front burner and the pressure on to make it happen as MLS #20

Nothing.More.

 

Rawlins 's not gonna like this

 

You're honestly the dumbest person here.