Pre-match: USA vs Costa Rica, September 6th 2013

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sebsasour, Aug 10, 2013.

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  1. PhillyandBCEagles

    Jul 9, 2012
    NC
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    JFT is a terrible fit in the modern international game, period. If it were 1995 and we were looking for a classic Hagi/Valderrama-style #10 we'd have two very good options in Torres and Adu (not saying either of those guys are as good as Hagi and Valderrama were, just that they would've done well in that role). In 2013, not so much. He does well in the MFL because of the style of play in that league, but I don't think he'd even be able to play for most MLS teams.
     
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  2. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    How true. For the same reason, it is realistic to play Dempsey as a "10", replacing a distributor with a scorer. I dont think spurfans or spur players ever understood that even if AVB did.
     
  3. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't Torres play some CM in the first Gold Cup game? Or was it Guatemala? Seem to remember him there recently. May have only lasted a half, however. I thought he played pretty well on the left in GC, however.

    FWIW, I think JK sees him as a backup player. He isn't going to start barring some huge injury issues. Therefore, I think JK wants to see him in a variety of positions (LM, CAM, LCM, even LB) to see how he can help the team. If JFT does make the team, it will be because of his ability to play decent in a number of spots (LM, CAM, LCM) rather than really well in any.

    JFT is in the top 35, but the 23 may be dicey.
     
  4. Papillon Soo Soo

    Jan 17, 2012
    Exactly.

    I don't blame Torres for that performance. That was a strategic miscalculation by Bradley to try play possession vs Slovenia.

    A) the US didn't have enough personnel to carry out a deccent possession performance against a WC-caliber team. When Onyewu and DeMerit - whom Torres was lined in front of, are your safe backpass options, turnovers are going to happen. Torres was being set up to fail there.

    B) the decision to try to boss possession played into Slovenia's hands because their strengths was to defend against and pressure the ball holder in the midfield, try to force turnovers and bite on the counter - and that's exactly what they did. The US had success in the offensive end when Slovenia stopped pressuring in the midfield and tried to hang onto their lead by staying back.

    In spite of all that, Torres still had one of the best scoring opportunities for the US in the first half on the excellent free kick.

    Torres in the Klinnsman era would be a much more useful player.

    He is good enough for CONCACAF as it is, even under Bradley, he delivered a bunch in qualifying. I'm not sure what his role in a WC would be. Perhaps he misses the cut there with all of the other options emerging. I still like him as player though.
     
  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Torres is NOT an attacking player. He's a traditional CM, not a CAM. He can be used as a DM even. He's more defensive than Jones or Bradley, he's closer to Beckerman or Cameron (when the latter plays CM).
     
  6. (TxT)

    (TxT) Member+

    Jun 9, 2004
    Tampa, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How does that work in regards to clubs having to release players on these dates? Is every player required to be released or only 23? I'm sure clubs wouldn't be happy if a coach calls up 29 guys and one of their guys, who is not top 23 on the depth chart, gets injured in training. If some wacky coach calls in 35 guys to camp do they all have to be released by their clubs?
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Bedoya started for Nantes against PSG today and played well in 2-1 loss. We will yet make you a believer.
     
  8. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.fai.ie/international/sen...ad-to-face-sweden-and-austria-next-month.html

    It's a "provisional" roster. At some point before the players assemble together they will announce the final roster of 23. Clubs have to send call-up letters to clubs early, so they send a few extra in order to allow for injuries, variation in form and tactical situations - 6 of these guys are going to be "cut" and stay with their clubs. The "preliminary" list is not publicized by all national teams so while Jürgen will have one, apparently he doesn't like to put it out there. For example, I think Morales was reportedly sent a callup letter (according to either the German media or his club) for Bosnia, but didn't make the final cut.

    Practically speaking, it's easier for Ireland to switch players in and out between the 2 qualifiers due to the geographical proximity - if someone gets hurt in CR, Jürgen might opt for an MLS-based replacement, but my understanding is that it would be someone on the prelim list, unless something unusual happens (e.g. 2 keepers get injured) - any exceptions would require a special favor from the club affected.
     
  9. ckl26

    ckl26 Member+

    Jul 21, 2012
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Bedoya looked really good vs. PSG today for anyone who missed it...he was voted Best Player by FC Nantes...almost scored the equalizer on a header that went upper left but the goalie made a ridiculous save. I had never seen Bedoya play like this. I always had him in my final 23 but if he keeps this kind of play up I think he'll serve as a very good backup heading into Brazil. He almost had one our two assists - one of them really should have been put away but went just over the bar. Also had a nice little 2 v 1 and almost scored in the 1st half. I think you can really only choose one of Bedoya, Corona, Torres in your 'ideal' 23 and I think Bedoya might have the lead over those three as of now.
     
  10. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bedoya has the most to gain with his move to Nantes.......that is a move that really forces his case for brazil. I used to think he really was an outsider, but he can get a foothold in now if he can get on a streak in france
     
  11. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Bedoya has quietly gotten better all summer. He just keeps goin about his job and he has the eye of JK, I think he is in for Brazil if he keeps getting playing time.
     
  12. USOutlaw16

    USOutlaw16 Member+

    Green Bay Voyageurs
    United States
    Jan 22, 2011
    On the Gringo Wall of Shame
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doing snowangels as a goal celebration would be a nice touch as well ;)
     
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  13. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Torres might be more defensive than Bradley or Jones in his positioning, but unfortunately, and this is why he either doesn't play at the international level or plays in some strange inappropriate position on the wing, he is not a good defensive player. He lacks physicality and he covers much less ground than Bradley or Jones or any of the other central midfielders. As a result, he isn't as good as the other central midfielders given what JK (and BB before him) wants to do. He doesn't produce enough goals or assists to play left mid or behind the strikers, which leaves him right where he is now - way on the fringes of the USMNT.
     
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  14. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree. At the risk of oversimplifying, I'd say Torres is a massively downgraded version of Pirlo, with the same deficiencies in work rate/defensive physicality and similar (if less prominent) strengths in long/short passing skill, field vision, and set pieces. I like his game, but to actually realize Torres' strengths requires constructing the rest of the midfield to provide defensive cover and allow him to set up deep, . His overall quality doesn't really warrant that kind of wholesale tactical design, meaning his utility with the NT is situational at best.
     
  15. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Torres will always be a 'niche' player. But with that said, in the right game....he can be our best player on the field too....
     
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  16. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've never seen that happen and it would have to be because other players either weren't on the roster or didn't play well. I don't know that he has the ceiling to just outplay so many players who are better than him at the national team level. I'm not saying he can't contribute given the right situation, but right now, I think we have way too many options to make him a major contributor in any important games.
     
  17. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well why do you think I listed a bunch of those positions in the post? The fact remains he's played, for the USMNT, on the left more than anywhere else. JK had him as a CAM early on in his tenure. He's rarely gotten minutes as a dual CM, and next to none as a pure DM. With his technical ability, he can be very useful offensively, as his nice scoops and play down the left demonstrated in the GC.

    Anyway, like I said, he isn't going to start as a CM/DM, that is Bradley/Jones territory. He likely isn't going to start on the wing (Donovan + FJ/Dempsey/Zusi/Bedoya/Shea/Johannsson/EJ etc) and the SS slot is either Dempsey or Donovan, so he has to prove his versatility as a backup (CM, LCM, LM, CAM, LB) which he has done fairly well, in my opinion.
     
  18. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Personally, he always does well vs. Costa Rica. He did great in the GC, at times was our best player. Same could be said during both games under Bob in the last qualifiers.

    Point being, against the right team....he can be a great contributor....
     
  19. manq360

    manq360 Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Portland, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I also saw the game and though Bedoya looked really good. What I especially was pleased to see was that he switched sides, so is able to play on either the right or left. He also got close enough to goal to have several good shots...as noted they were saved by the keeper, who did a very good job. I think Zusi and Corona had better work really hard or they may be looking at back-up roles.

    On a different note...what is going on with this forum? Is this it? No more red "new", no more info on the submitters, and for God's sake, please have the next page begin at top of page. Did I miss an explanation somewhere as to what is going on?
     
  20. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, one more weekend to go before CR/Mex calls.

    If I had to limit to 23:
    GK: Howard, Guzan, Rimando
    D: Evans, Gonzalez, Besler, Beasley; Goodson, Brooks
    D/M: F. Johnson, Cameron, Castillo
    M: Bradley, Jones, Zusi, Bedoya, Diskerud, Torres
    M/F: Donovan, Dempsey, Johannsson
    F: Altidore, E. Johnson

    I'd also add: Beckerman, Kljestan, and possibly Shea if he's healthy. If not Brek, then possibly another RB, either Parkhurst or Chandler or Lichaj.
     
  21. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice work, my only Nit is Torres, I don't see him getting a call.
     
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  22. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member+

    United States
    Jul 20, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When JK is planning to publish a list of callups, this weekend i think?
     
  23. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd expect leaks over the next week and a full roster Monday. Thats a total guess on my part though
     
  24. mike4066

    mike4066 Member+

    Jun 30, 2007
    Chula Vista, CA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Full roster either Sunday evening or on Tuesday (Monday is a holiday after all).
     
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas

    There's nothing that Torres does that makes you think he'd either be an effective starter or sub for the USMNT. Are you bringing him off the bench if you need a goal? No. Are you bringing him off the bench if you're protecting a lead? Unlikely.

    He just seems to be a guy that continues to get callups.........................."just because." It doesn't seem like there's a role for him.

    We don't exactly have a lot of young DM's thriving in MLS right now, though.. Guys like Perry Kitchen aren't forcing themselves into the picture.
     
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