US Goalkeeper discussion thread - Part II

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by giffenbone, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're awfully confident here. I suppose it's possible that you have some special insight into how high-level coaches think. But I can't see why coaches would be different from any other decisionmaker. If a boss has two employees of comparable abilities but one is stronger in an area that the boss prioritizes, then the boss will pick that employee. The decision gets a lot easier when one is at the end of his career and the other hasn't reached his prime, of course.
     
  2. BayernGK

    BayernGK Member

    Jul 27, 2003
    Louisville
    To attempt to give you an idea of how far asinine your theory is--it would be the same as if you told me Boas wasn't going to start Gareth Bale because his replacement's throw in's are better. Then imagine you supporting that decision because Boas prioritizes throw in ability.

    If that were real life, Andres Villas Boas would be a terrible manager. Same as if he started a lesser keeper because he could pass the ball better. If there is a manager somewhere who subscribes to your school of thought, his days are probably quite numbered.
     
  3. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The position you're arguing with might be well asinine. But it's not my position, so I wouldn't know. I'm saying it's possible that Villas Boas might have considered Friedel a marginally better shot-stopper but nonetheless eventually picked Lloris as his starter in part because Llloris helps Tottenham play a style of defense that will help the team achieve better results overall. The other big reasons--bigger ones in the long term--were that Lloris is much younger and that Spurs had just paid a lot of money for him. That's so far from arguing that AVB should bench Bale in favor of somebody who takes better throw-ins that I'm perplexed you even bring it up.

    Obviously, Villas Boas thought it was a pretty close call between the two at the time. Or he wouldn't have started Friedel in goal for as many games as he did before putting in Lloris. I think it's a pretty good guess that he didn't keep Friedel on the pitch initially out of sentimentality for a player whom he inherited, especially when the was starting a new coaching job in which he needed to do well from the start.
     
  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Lloris replaced Friedel because of the money invested in Lloris and his "potential" for the future. Nothing else.
     
  5. colins1993

    colins1993 Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.
     
  6. colins1993

    colins1993 Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are referring to decision making as opposed to technique, which I am addressing. Repetition, repetition, repetition develops "instinct". You are not born with keeper instinct IMO.

    I agree with your statement re athletic keepers and discipline somewhat. I think discipline is more difficult for the "aggressive" keeper though. Maybe the athletic keeper is more aggressive.

    BTW, Howard has not been beaten with balls over his head in a good long time IIRC. IMO he has since corrected that flaw as I have stated in other threads previously.

    I am of the mindset that keeper coaches, and all coaches for that matter, need to raise the bar in this country. Just like players need to be pushed, so do coaches. But who does the pushing with coaches ?
     
  7. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  8. colins1993

    colins1993 Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Unsighted on a free kick. Gets beat to his left.
    Hardly the same as the one in Azteca in 2009 were he was beaten from OPEN play almost directly over his head which I was referring to.
     
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Timmy gets so angry and nervous that he makes me angry and nervous.
     
    swedust repped this.
  10. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    This is well said. Totally agree. (I remember you and I had a different opinion awhile back re: GK tactics) but you hit the nail on the head...

    Whether a keeper is "overly aggressive" or too cautious is hindsight stuff... You want your keeper to play the style where is most comfortable..

    (For example, De Jea is a great shot stopper. wonderful distribution but is an accident waiting to happen on set pieces... Everyone knows this. Not rocket science. He simply doesn't have the ability to command the penalty box.)

    My point is that you will rarely find a keeper who has all the abilities perfected. You p;ick your poison...
     
  11. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks, tbh, I really don't recall us having disagreed . .

    This is absolutely true, the best ones are those who know their shortcomings and work on them.

    This is a great example. Part of De Gea's concern is that he is so young that he has not filled out physically yet. Folks get physical with him on nearly every one of these occasions and that can be brutal in the BPL. Commanding the penalty box can be challenging for a young keeper, whose native tongue is not English. Early on, his language skills were a concern. These are two skills which may ultimately become strengths. One thing is for certain, like Howard did, he has some of the best training in the world at ManU.

    This is true, the only exception I can think of might be Iker Casillas, who started for Real Madrid at 19 made the Spain team at 21 and was full captain of Spain at 27. Rare air, indeed.
     
  12. WrmBrnr

    WrmBrnr Member+

    Apr 12, 2001
    San Carlos
    Paging Brad Guzan... Brad Guzan, please pick up the white courtesy phone...
     
    Pl@ymaker repped this.
  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Howard had a few nice saves, but was partially at fault on the second goal. I think a switch at GK may happen soon. Guzan is the better GK.
     
  14. soccersubjectively

    soccersubjectively BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 17, 2012
    Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #364 soccersubjectively, Sep 23, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
    Anyone know where Guzman and DMM are now? Trying to track them down.
     
  15. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We are very blessed to have a fine stable of outstanding (and also young, emerging) goalkeepers.
    Here is an article on England's recent concerns:

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/winning-race-become-england-number-122252994.html

    [​IMG]

    That no player in any of the aforementioned leagues has committed more errors leading to opposition goals this season than Hart (3), who plays for a team with a normally solid defence, speaks volumes about his current form and state of mind. He has also only saved 65.5% of the shots on target he has faced in Premier League games this season, a rate some way down on anything he achieved in his 3 other seasons for City (78.7% in 2010/11, 74% in 2011/12, 67.2% in 2012/13). For a number of years his declining performances have been blamed on a lack of competition for both club and country, and it is about time Hart got the scare that might spark a resurgence in form.
     
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  16. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    they really gotta look at starting Forster......
     
  17. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, for sure Hart has played poorly recently, ultimately giving up his job at City.

    Hart is still probably the best keeper of the lot, just a run of bad form.
    The England friendlies may be just the thing to get him back on track, if he gets the nod.
    It's a very tough decision to change goalkeepers in the middle of a cycle.
    Remember Robert Green's bungle on Clint Dempsey's shot in the last WC?
    They had some problems in the last cycle, too. I'm sure many thought England's problems had
    been solved with Hart.

    Again, we are lucky to have choices, now. And more coming through the pipeline.
     
  18. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yup......poor poor england. Mike Magee is a better goalkeeper than their best options :p
     
  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If England are really desperate they should dress up Taylor Twellman in a Joe Hart jersey...
     
  20. Skippysasquirrel

    May 11, 2012
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    just pick a ruddy keeper already...
     
  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    CTS26 and LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  22. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ImaPuppy, Marko72, blacksun and 3 others repped this.
  23. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    For people interested in watching a kid that looks like the future of the goalkeeping position................watch Zack Steffen of Maryland in the College Cup Final.

    Kid has "it."
     
  25. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. UVA was the better team but couldn't finish well enough and made exactly 2 defensive mistakes. MD had two players who made the difference. Mullins and Steffen.
     

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