PBP: Ukraine vs France: June 15 - Donbass Arena [R]

Very disappointed. Ukraine seemed to be clawing their way back into the match. We were able to string a few attacks together in the early second half and then the Defense melted. A reserved victory for France.

 

Well, that's the problem with the Ukraine: they seem to rely entirely on Shevchenko and when he does not perform they've had it.

 

Sweden is not far behind in their dependence on Ibra.

 

Actually, Ukraine do not rely on Sheva enough. There has been talk throughout the football circles in Ukraine prior to Euro2012 that Blokhin's decision to include Sheva was nothing more than a legacy pick, a stylish send-off, if you will. Of course, Sheva had other plans.

 

I have to agree with you. They look pretty good, and I don't think he overshadows his team nearly as much as some of those other one hit wonders...

 

Well we will see in the match against England; if Sheva does not score, will the Ukraine manage to qualify?

 

Isn't it Ukraine, not the Ukraine?

Perhaps...

 

Sheva has not been scoring lately, anyways. That two goal outburst was a huge surprise.

 

We call it The Ukraine in this part of the world.

 

I have a Ukrainian friend who told me not to call it "the" Ukraine... Didn't say why though.

 

I believe that "the Ukraine" and "Ukraine" are not the same things. "the Ukraine" is the region and "Ukraine" is the country. They are not 100% overlapping.

 

Yeah, I have a feeling it's probably some Cold War mistranslation (as Russian, as far as I know, doesn't have the word "the") and it ends up sounding the equivalent of "the Plains" or "the Grasslands." Maybe a better comparison is that here in the US we have "the Bayou," but it's not exactly the same thing as Louisiana. Maybe?

 

The Ukraine is a region of what ,Ukraine?

 

It was a region of the Soviet Union.

 

Sorry chaps, I was letting you run with the ball (pardon the pun) just to see how much you knew. As it happens my wife is Ukrainian. She confirms that in her country they only call it Ukraine, not The Ukraine and that there is no such thing as a region called The Ukraine. Even in Soviet times it was a whole republic (one of the 21 Soviet republics).
She also acknowledges that it is called the Ukraine in UK (sorry I mean the UK). We do not know about USA (I mean the USA).

 

Ahhh... So any theories as to where the whole "the Ukraine" business came from?

 

Methinks it could be something as simple as: the first two letters of UKraine are as on the UK so it sounded natural to say the same with Ukraine, but don't press the quote button here.
Also, we do the reverse: the French say La France, we say France.

 

I'll call BS on this one. Ukrainian language lacks the article "the" (or any article at all), so, "the Ukraine" is impossibility in Ukrainian. But it has nothing to do with how it is (or it isn't) called in English.

Now, there is such a thing as Ukraine the region. The Ukraine is a geographic region, which may include parts of Oryol, Belgorod provinces of Russia but excludes Crimean peninsula. It may also include easternmost areas of Slovakia and tiny bits of Southeastern Poland (those populated by ruthenes, also known as Lemkivschina).

Keep in mind that historically the idea of Ukraine has existed since 11th century AD. With tiny exceptions, Ukraine as a country, has only been independent since December 1991.

 

Thanks for the background! Just curious, didn't mean to derail the France/Ukraine discussion

 

I do not know who invented the concept of Ukraine the region but it could be like the people who suddenly started calling the USA America, which is the name of the continent, not the country.
I asked my wife about the Ukraine region and she did not recognise it, as someone who was no taught it at school. Similarly, no-one taught me at school that America was a country and not the continent.
Crimea is to the Ukraine what Scotland is to Britain and you do not call Britain a region.

 

That's a whole different can of worms, but no, I'm confident it's very different from that.

 

Crimea is not to Ukraine what Scotland is to Britain. Crimea was not a part of Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic until 1957 when Khruschev decided to give it to Ukraine. Crimea was in no way connected to Ukraine ethnically, culturally, geographically or any other way until then.

I do not know how old your wife is. but if she is older than 30 she would have been taught in fine Soviet traditions of education. While the education was strong, political propaganda was never a small part. Ukraine as an idea was not particularly well received.