UCSB player assaults referee

Discussion in 'Referee' started by espola, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm not sure why that should follow. First, he's on a student visa, not an athletics visa so being dropped from the team in and of itself would make no difference. He may have been on an athletic scholarship. If he was, that scholarship could possibly be revoked due to him being cut. He would then have to find some other way to pay for the balance of his final year.

    Only if he was was kicked out of the university, either for failure to pay or because of the incident, should he be eligible for deportation. I wouldn't be too worried about it if I was him.

    (I should think the criminal charge is his bigger worry vis-a-via his visa.)
     
  2. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We would do a world of good if we changed that rule.
     
  3. NC Soccer United

    NC Soccer United BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jan 25, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Oh please. We got video of it all.
     
  4. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Yes, but a judge may still have to rule on the issue of embellishment.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  5. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    you mean the ref went down at the slightest contact?
     
  6. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's not the point. The man has a constitutional right not to incriminate himself no matter the quality of the State's evidence. He absolutely should not waive that right unless and until he decides to testify at trial, if a trial occurs.

    Anyway, we're getting pretty far afield from the point of the thread.
     
  7. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    If an apology amounts to self-incrimination, that's a problem with the law and should be fixed.
     
  8. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Since he was arrested, I will assume he was Mirandized at that point. Only a fool will say anything after that without his lawyer's consent. I once saw a Marx brothers film that was (almost) completely silent. Chico and Harpo are trying to rob a bank. They get caught and hauled into a line up. Groucho is also thrown in, even though he has not been seen before this, and the teller identifies all three of them as suspects. Groucho steps forward and says the only words of the film, "We aren't talking until we see our lawyer."
     
  9. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There's a fundamental difference between talking to the police (or other government representative) and to talking to a private citizen. I don't see why an apology would (or should) be anything more than hearsay. It certainly isn't a statement to any authority.
     
  10. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Then you obviously not a lawyer.

    Hearsay evidence exclusion, as a general matter, does not prevent overheard statements that you make from being used aganist you. It prevents an overheard statement by some other person from being used against you. (The hearsay rules relate, roughly speaking, to the unfairmess of not being able to question the the person who made the hearsay statement.)

    In other words if A hears B say something happened, it would (generally) be excluded if someone wanted to use it against C; but it would (generally) be admitted against B.
     
    MrPerfectNot and ColoradoRef repped this.
  11. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    OK, now this is getting more complicated than a discussion around offside position and active involvement.
     
    dadman, Law5 and midmogooner repped this.
  12. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Quoting (without either attribution or permission or context) from today's SOCREF-L:
    ;)
     
  13. NC Soccer United

    NC Soccer United BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jan 25, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Then why apologize at all then? Isn't that circumstantial evidence? If you did nothing wrong, why apologize?
     
  14. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You clearly don't have a clue what hearsay is.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay

    So for example if this went to trial, and someone were on the stand testifying that was present when the defendant was apologizing, and was attempting to testify about said apology, that would be hearsay.

    However, if the defendant were on the stand and the prosecutor asked him to recount his apology and what he meant, that is not hearsay. Or if there is audio/video of the apology, there is no reason that could not be entered as evidence.

    Makes absolutely no difference who he said the apology to or that it wasn't an 'authority.'

    Personally, the little shit should be expelled from school, have his visa revoked and summarily deported.
     
  15. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    The non-apology apology has become a high art form in recent years.
     
  16. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Let's not forget this apology was issued over some form of social media in print, so it is not hearsay.

    If I'm this kid, it would be my goal to delay proceedings in the matter as long as possible. Get my family to pay the low cost of in-state tuition for the one semester, and try to finish my degree.

    That means not saying anything which could expidite a conviction and then an attempt to deport me,
     
  17. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That conference (The Big West) has a rule that coaches and players (except the captain) are not allowed to talk to the referee at all from the moment he arrives at the field to the moment he leaves. It is not enforced by the ref, but by the on site game monitor, and the penalty if the coach breaks the rule is a one game suspension. So the UCSB coach was NOT suspended for escalating the situation to a referee assault, but for simply talking to the referee. In other words, he has not received any discipline at all for this.

    And as someone else pointed out, this has only bee a matter of time at UCSB. I'm frankly surprised it took this long for a referee to finally get attacked there. This I think is Reed's second year refereeing that conference and was probably his first game in the middle at UCSB too.
     
  18. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I could be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time), but I thought you could not compel the defendant to testify. If that's correct, the only way an apology wouldn't be hearsay is if the defendant waived his right not to testify.

    Regardless, my point isn't that you can't currently use an apology against someone. My point is that it is unjust and a social harm to use apologies against someone. Apologies are one of the social lubricants that allows polite society to function. Being prevented from apologizing because it may cause you to go to jail makes the situation much worse. A person should be able to apologize to someone without it prejudicing any proceedings against him. If that's not how it works, we need to change it.
     
  19. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    He's eligible for deportation if hes convicted of a crime of moral turpitude (tyically felony, not misdemeanor).
     
  20. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Hearsay is an out of court statement made by a declarant to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

    An admission is an exception to the hearsay rule.
     
    ZipSix repped this.
  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    See AEK's post above. You can't force him to testify, but if he speaks -- in or out of court -- it can be used against him in court regardless of whether he testifies in court.
     
  22. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    How many times has VoM Steeg been suspended before?
     
  23. Mi3ke

    Mi3ke Member

    Oct 18, 2011
    New Mexico
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An East Coast state recently changed malpractice laws to allow a doctor to apologize to patient/family for a medical screw up and that apology not be used in any lawsuit. Studies have shown an "I'm sorry , I screwed up." cuts down on lawsuits.

    Cheers, Mi3ke
     
  24. Mi3ke

    Mi3ke Member

    Oct 18, 2011
    New Mexico
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Think Sanduskys interview with Bob Costas. The prosecution was ready to use it in court if Sandusky took the stand to impeach his testimony. That was a case of a man talking after not listening to his lawyer telling him to shut up.

    Cheers, mi3ke
     
  25. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know of any. THat rule is sort of self-policed, meaning it really is only enforced if one coach complaines to the game observer that the other coach broke it. This is the second year of the rule, and they send out sternly worded emails about it all the time, but I don't know of any actual suspensions, until this one.
     

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