UCL - Manchester United vs Bayern München - April 1, 2014 [R]

This is soooooo irritating. We blew away the PL last year and looked good in the CL until Nani was sent off. Why do we all of a sudden need "3 or 4 world class players"? Especially if Moyes could manage any of the world class players he has now.

We need a center mid. "World class" sounds good, until you realize he'd be just another player either benched or pushed out to the wing to make more room for Rooney.

We probably need another defender (not a world class one), and for a manager who can manage all the defenders that we have.

Full backs we'd have if we didn't loan them out.

Wing players we have in abundance. Can we hold a yard sale?

World class forwards we have -- unless they decide to leave.

One thing I really admired about Sir Alex was how careful he was with both his players and the team's money (usually). We didn't do the Chelsea/RM thing of buying and selling players like we were trading penny stocks. We didn't throw around the club's money like there were money trees planted out back in the parking lot at Old Trafford. Sir Alex also acted like he had some responsibility to the players under his command.

Now I don't see any of that.

 

Not compete with the European elite? That is for damned sure because we're not odds on to finish with a Europa League spot.

 

He looks a bit... um, well, you know.

 

How do you think Kagawa performed? Which aspects are you impressed with him against Bayern and which aspects you felt he should have been better?

 

fabulous?

 

We struggled because as SAF admitted he was being stubborn, and ignored the game plan that WAS successful.

Random fact.

 

Somehow people seem to be reading me saying this was a decent result as an overall defense of Moyes. It isn't. He should be fired. He should have been fired months ago. The squad he does have is miles better than the results he has gotten with it, and that is unacceptable. Now that bit's out of the way, I will say that I do believe we needed 3-4 world class players to really have a squad that was level with the best in the world. Yes, we did well against Madrid last year, but even with Fergie at the helm this year would anyone have considered us amongst the favorites for the CL? No chance. We needed at least 1 CM, a winger (yes we have loads, but which beyond Nani on the rare occasion he's fit and firing is good enough for that level?) and 1-2 defenders (replacement for Evra, additional CB). Do they all need to be world class? It's a poorly defined term, so I'll concede that point if you like, but they needed to be starter quality.

Again, those are not players that were required to compete for the league title, or to be miles better than we have been. The squad that we do have is certainly capable of that, and Moyes failure in that area is inexcusable. Somehow a year ago it was consensus that the squad needed strong reinforcements to get back to the top of Europe, and now anyone who says it is seen as defending Moyes. They're two entirely different points that have no relation to each other.

 

"Somehow a year ago it was consensus that the squad needed strong reinforcements to get back to the top of Europe, and now anyone who says it is seen as defending Moyes. They're two entirely different points that have no relation to each other"

Good point especially the quoted bit above.

 

I thought he did pretty well. It was difficult to make too much of an impact as we obviously didn't see much of the ball, but on the few occasions he was able to get on the ball he mostly did a good job of keeping the ball against the press and retaining possession (with the exception of one notable time when he tried to be a bit too cute and lost out in a dangerous area). Defensively, I thought he did fine. He's never going to be confused for a destroyer but he understands how to cut off angles and force the ball away from dangerous areas.

 

That was what I noticed too, he would press Robben and then Robben would pass sideways instead of a forward pass into Man United's penalty box. How do you feel about his pressing ability?

 

i just wish that moyes would try a 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 with two playmakers just once this year. why not vs newcastle?

--------carrick
------mata - kagawa-----
januzaj---rooney-----welbeck

 

Well, we haven't gotten to see much of it as the team so rarely presses, particularly this year. On those rare occasions, I've found it to be quite good. He works pretty hard, and again the understanding of angles and space serve him well. He's an intelligent player and he does a good job of forcing the ball back to the other pressing players and preventing the outlet ball that breaks the press. A lot of times that work goes to waste though as we don't press effectively as a team and have other players who don't press well. For example, Kagawa will clearly show a player back into the press, but other players fail to read his angle and back off, etc. Again though, all of this is based in very small samples.

 

How did you think about his pressing work yesterday in the match against Bayern though? And how do you think of his pressing on Robben particularly?

 

:|

 

Precisely darling.

 

I have been asking this very question and the consensus on this board is that "they'll get overrun in midfield."

I still don't see what that has to do with anything when you're dictating the match with the ball, but I think the answer is more of a cultural one to where the premier league is based on strength first, ability second.

 

As opposed to the other times where we don't get overrun in midfield?

 

This post was brought to you by Late 1980's Football Stereotypes.

It's no longer based on strength. It's based on workrate. But not just any workrate, oh no. The intelligent, tactical midfielder who maintains a level of mental focus for 90 minutes that would give Joey Barton a brain hemorrhage, can sod off.

We want - nay demand - the blue-arsed fly, headless chicken kind of workrate. We want Brave John Terry hurling himself in front of cannonball shots. We want Wayne Rooney 60 yards out of position, effectively eliminating the team's only attacking outlet so he can clumsily tackle someone in his own half. We want wank Sunderland midfielders for whom "technique" is a fancy type of lego being "here, there and every-f***ing-where".

This is what plucky World Cup eliminations are made of. In August we can look Johnny Foreigner in the eye and say "we may have been shit, but by god, did we run a lot!".

 

I don't know what England you've been watching for the last few years....but there ain't a lot of running going on (except for maybe the occasional fast-no technique winger). The majority of games consist of complete lack of movement when on the ball, and all back to penalty area when off it. Most of the games we've taken slow to a new level. Running a lot (in terms of runs, looking for the ball, finding space, closing down) would make a nice change.

 

I was thinking about club performance. They are simply not deployed correctly for England. And "fast-no technique winger" is not the preferred nomenclature. The term is "England's saviour".

We should never have let Venables leave.

PS: "(in terms of runs, looking for the ball, finding space, closing down)" You can keep these new fangled, fancy continental ideas to yourself. The day our players stopped going down the pub for 12 pints and a few ciggies at halftime and started eating salads is where it all went wrong.

 

So it is.

 

You're assuming that Mata and Shinji will dictate the match so much so that they never would have to defend.

And I'm far from that train of thought. But playing two no 10's is waaay on the other side of that spectrum. Its Wenger esque and even he rectified his mistake.