U23 WNT Kicks off 2012

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Tokonta, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Maybe a reason for selecting certain players is also the system that the USWNT will play.

    Read Randy Waldrum's twitter for today mentioning how the mandate for all national teams is to play in a 4-3-3 system.

    It seems also that April Heinrich and Jillian Ellis are heavily involved in this, so maybe they are also involved in the selection of players as well as the mandate to play in a certain system.

    http://twitter.com/NDCoachWaldrum
     
  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is very interesting. It may explain some of what went on in Division I women's college soccer last year.
     
  3. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe Henderson was not able to go due to school/prof class attendance requirements.

    Interesting. Thanks for the info. I am not the biggest fan of April or Ellis. And I'm not that comfortable w/ them being so in control of the direction of the USWNT at this point. But we'll see how it goes, I guess.
     
  4. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    According to Waldrum's twitter the U-23's have a scrimmage today against IMG U-16 boys team.
     
  5. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eh, I can't believe the amount of Jill-bashing on this forum sometimes, even from normally reasonable folks. I guess if there were solid reasons for thinking she's being "groomed" to take over the senior team, I could understand. But she's out as U-20 coach and Randy Waldrum was given the reins of the U23s. She and Heinrichs are doing on the women's side what a couple others have been doing on the men's side , coordinating the youth programs (I can't think of the name of the guy who just wrote the handbook for the men's side) and no one's suggesting that the guys are being groomed to take over from Klinsmann.

    Jill is a very good coach, not, perhaps, a great one. But she has a good eye for soccer and bringing out the personality of different players' styles. Perhaps she lacked that one last element to be a championship coach - that one last bit of game-day leadership necessary to will her team or inspire it to victory.

    That's a legitimate gripe that people can have. But as long as this isn't about her being the game-day coach of the team, I think everyone's objections to her current role at US Soccer are unfounded.
     
  6. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We'll have to agree to disagree. I know you're a UCLA guy. I don't mindlessly bash Ellis. imo, at the NCAA level, she did well except for winning "the big one" and that happens to a lot of good coaches. Dean Smith didn't win a title til '82. And I think she'd eventually have won a title while putting out quality NCAA teams.

    It was her performance in the last U20s that solidified my not wanting her to be coaching or technically directing in the US program. Nothing she did there showed me that she can see where the game is or is going internationally. That's now her job.

    And if you don't think she's been and is being groomed for the USWNT job, well, you're fooling yourself. I'm not a Paul Riley fan but I'd have to take him over Ellis & April Take 2.
     
  7. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Waldrum twitter: U-23's played IMG U-17 boys in 3x30 periods. Lost 1-0, 1-0, & 2-0.
     
  8. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I love it when you can get good information and I appreciate Coach Waldrum's twitters on USWNT U-23 progress.

    He also states that he will fly in and have talks with Pia about the camps, players in order to have good integration.

    http://twitter.com/NDCoachWaldrum
     
  9. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree the U20 tournament was a failure and did nothing to recommend Jillian continuing as coach of the team although the game against Nigeria was a tale of two halves with the US looking like it was going to run away in the 1st half and then seeming to just run out of gas physically in the 2nd -- not exactly sure what happened there.

    But on the whole her failures have come just in that last bit of motivation and leadership at the final hurdle in the NCAAs, not from having her teams look technically or tactically poor or unsound. So you don't want her as your game-day coach -- I can see that. The rest of the criticisms at BigSoccer simply don't apply. What, do we need to have the greatest coach in the world not only as our coach but as the technical director? And I suppose to take Sunil's job, too, right?

    And maybe I'm "fooling myself" that she isn't being groomed to take over the head coach job but it doesn't help when someone can't give me reasons why it's so obvious that she's being groomed for it. Did they groom Klinsi to be coach by making him technical director? Bob Bradley? Pia?

    So you and the rest simply don't want her "anywhere near" the women's team because you don't want her as head coach. So are we going to fill all these jobs only with people who you would be perfectly happy to see as head coach USWNT? Yeah? You have that many people you'd be perfectly happy as head coach filling the U23, U20, U17 and technical director slots? Wow, if it wasn't for Jill wouldn't we be a contented lot here at BigSoccer.

    Honestly....
     
  10. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your last paragraph is over the top hyperbole and does not reflect an accurate reading of my own stated views. You're conflating other posters slagging off w/ my stated views on Ellis. You're throwing out all sorts of straw arguments with which I'm not going to engage.

    I disagree on this point. In the last U20 tournament, I did see the team coached by Ellis look tactically poor/unsound. And not just in the game where they were eliminated. The S.K. game and the game vs Ghana were not masterpieces of tactics. The Ghana game in particular was a real stinker by staff and players. Overall for the tourny, they were far too direct, the defense wasn't as organized as it should have been, poor in-game adjustments, and she did not do any scouting at all on the CAF teams.

    I wasn't a hater prior and I'm not a hater. I just think Ellis found her level in the NCAA/club ball. It happens to players and coaches.
     
  11. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, let's go back a couple comments and take it from here.

    At the risk of some over-simplification, the bottom line is we don't have the players to play like Barcelona. And it's catching up to us and making it difficult to stay at an elite level from the senior level and all the way down the line.

    DiCicco won with the U20s two years before Jillian's last tournament with them. Who were his stars? Leroux and Alex Morgan. Now here at BigSoccer, Jillian gets slammed for favoritism for using Leroux. And in both cases, I think I can guarantee that Leroux and Morgan, whatever wonderful qualities they have, didn't suddenly play like Barcelona under DiCicco only to not be Barcelona style players afterwards under Jillian and, in the case of Morgan, Pia Sundhage with the full national team.

    As far as recognizing talent, the diversity of qualities that a soccer player can bring to a team, Jillian is fine. This is a good position for her and one where she will help the program.

    With one caveat - it's not like she invented the 4-2-3-1 or successfully implemented it anywhere. But how many coaches , in the women's game, have shown that they're on that particular cutting edge?
     
  12. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Well, no, at least not according to Tony. First, according to his 2008 report, Enyeart was the leading scorer through qualifiers before she got hurt in practice games after qualification (concussion) and he put a markedly different spin on why he won in 2008 . For one thing he built a much better team that could play defense and do some of the things Jill's 2010 team couldn't. That's why he won and she didn't. And he recognized what players were needed, to the point of sending a couple of individual "stars" home. He even states in the report they would not have won if those players remained.

    He also said one of the things that won the cup was the " unstoppable central midfield " of Edwards and Winters. In fact, in his post tournament assessment, the only person he said should be promoted to the full Nats at that time was Winters.

    He also demanded that forwards be able to play with their backs to the goal and hold the ball to allow for support. Two players he singled out as deficient in this regard we're LeRoux and Morgan. And he demanded they play defense.


    You can read the 170 page report here:
    http://www.tnsoccer.org/Assets/wnt+report.pdf

    Page 80 and 104-105 are good places to start.

    The reason Jillian gets slammed is how she set the rest of the team up around her pet player LeRoux. The only offense she designed had LeRoux chasing down punts and outrunning the defense--nothing else. Pretty much what she did her last year at UCLA. When she ran into a team that could match Sidney's speed, the 2010 team got eliminated ( she later admitted she didn't scout the opponent, an automatic fail.)

    But that is water under the dam. Dicicco did say that both LeRoux and Morgan had tremendous physical ability ( not matched by technical ability) Morgan has clearly improved in four years. I guess I want to know if LeRoux has improved in her tenure at UCLA under Jill.

    Yes, she is fast, but at the current world stage, there are players on all the top teams that can keep up with or catch Sidney. What other skills does she have? Can she now post up and hold the ball? How's her support of other players? Does she play defense?

    We have had problems in the past with "black Hole" players who don't seem to be able to return a pass, especially under April with Jill as assistant.
     
  13. gogogo

    gogogo Member

    Apr 18, 2002
    I agree - like hearing about the U23s (and all national teams). Thanks coach!
     
  14. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    this!!!

    it was as clear as day. jill's team could run. but there was little soccer being played. well, the africans could run just as well as her team could, and they could actually play better soccer than in previous decades. jill's tactics were from the 1990s.

    it was annoying and embarrassing.
     
  15. goaleemama

    goaleemama Member

    Nov 10, 2011
    Here we go again! The U23s are in La Manga and not a word about it anywhere. Darn you, US Soccer, and your silent website! I guess I'll have to try to find some mention of our Santa Clara girls in a Swedish newspaper or something... one blogger could make this tournament an exciting event for all the girls in the US who follow college soccer. :confused:
     
  16. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

    College vs NT International Level? You cant improve if you only get 2 caps in 2 yrs. Morgan has 32 caps. What part of that you people don't understand? If he gave morgan, press, henderson, sydney and say "casey" 20 international caps a piece, who would develop into the best forward? No one knows because Morgan is getting all the snaps. Really, if Jill wasnt on the bench, Sydney wouldnt have gotten those 3 caps over the last month or so. Remove Jill and Sydney is still probably on 2 caps. Women's soccer isn't any different than any professional sport when it comes to rookies. They have to get the playing time to improve and compete. Like I said, Nike got their #1 forward. She'll be put in the position to get 100 goals before anyone else can get 50. U23? I really don't keep track of it like that.
     
  17. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    You have it backwards. Rookies have to improve and compete to get playing time. That competition takes place in camp.
     
  18. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
  19. goaleemama

    goaleemama Member

    Nov 10, 2011
  20. ZoroTheSlacker

    ZoroTheSlacker A Sophomore Dad

    Feb 12, 2012
  21. goaleemama

    goaleemama Member

    Nov 10, 2011
    I noticed that too... maybe one is injured. Also, it's the first game - maybe he's trying to get play time for both...
     
  22. ZoroTheSlacker

    ZoroTheSlacker A Sophomore Dad

    Feb 12, 2012
    I'll go with the injury guess. Odd time for a keeper sub with no GA.
     
  23. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I see former Chicago Red Star forward Kosovare Asllani played for Sweden in the U-23's.

    I like Asllani when she played for the Red Stars. Skilled and fast forward who had lots of guts.
     
  24. gogogo

    gogogo Member

    Apr 18, 2002
    Coach Randy's tweets (best English-language coverage of the US W U-23s) indicate that Henninger injured her ankle - hence the sub.
     
  25. goaleemama

    goaleemama Member

    Nov 10, 2011
    Phooey! I hope it's not serious... that would be bad luck! Especially coming on top of the cancellation of the WPS season :(
     

Share This Page