451 for example is a system of play, not a formation in the American football sense. It simply means 4 backs, 5 midfielders, and 1 forward. I don't understand why people want to make the description more complicated than that. It really does not provide any detailed information about the system. And that doesn't really describe the system of play by itself. I primarily use a 433. When a back moves up in the attack that doesn't make it a 343. Its just a fullback attacking. Likewise if 1 or 2 forwards come back to defend behind the ball that doesn't make it 442 or 451 system. Its just forwards defending.
Exactly my point! I don't talk about the numbers of the formation to 10 and 11 year old players. I play sweeper, rb, lb, cm, rw, lw and cf. I teach them the proper way to support the player with ball(in possession) as well as the first defender. We also work on drops, overlaps, wall-passes, give and go's and take overs. Telling a youth player exactly where to stand is a sure way to kill their ability to read the game and and make their own decisions on the fly. Some of the best youth teams in this country are near unbeatable in the younger age groups but eventually lack an ounce of creativity because of coaches who tell them exactly what to do and when to do it every second of the game. Eventually having the fastest and strongest players doesn't cut it if they can't think for themselves.
Whatever the numbers, it is a red herring. It doesn't matter what formation you play at these younger ages. It's about what tactics you are teaching. The coaches that tell the kids to play these overly elaborate formations are just teaching them how to position themselves on the field, and not _in relation to each other_ like it should be.
That's correct. The diagram and discussion from the bettersoccermorefun link is not intended for the players, it is for the coach. For the players I just give simple positions: RB, CB, LB, RM, CM, LM, STR. That Dutch "double diamond" is a coaching concept, but for the kids I think of it as a 3-3-1. Then I teach them how to move to help each other, how to pressure/cover, how to find space, etc.
You know, I think this is an important thing to highlight. I've seen plenty of descriptions and diagrams of this system and, again, I'm a fan of what it's trying to promote (on paper). But nowhere in any of the write-ups that I've seen is the above statement at all obvious or clear. I know a few coaches who are still spending significant training time on player positioning in this system...a big BOLD disclaimer would be a good thing for all the kids playing this system.
You make a fair point about the possible need for a disclaimer on these formation/systems web pages. They don't usually say; For Coaching Eyes Only. From experience, I've seen kids' eyes glaze over when a coach (myself included) tries to draw out positions and formations. Kids are too concrete and don't really see the "big picture", nor do they care. Heck, some young players take YEARS to figure out "left" from "right" or "up" from "back" on a soccer field. "Suzy, remember to look at the goal we are trying to score in, then you'll know where the left midfielder plays... Kyle, back up a little; no not toward the sideline, but back toward our goal...!" Just getting across the concepts of pressure/cover, supporting in relation to the teammate with the ball, and indentifying open spaces on the field takes time for the young player. The formation stuff goes over most of their heads, and to the kids the coach explaining formations all the time will sound like the grownups in the Peanuts cartoons.
tell me if I am in violation of any rules I play in north texas - can not find any rules to help me NTxsoccer.org I have a rec team active an playing every weekend, 2 players are belong to a select team from the area, and when the schedules allows I let the players join their team mates for rec games (they have been together for 5year now) today other coach point out that I can NOT let a select or competitive team player be in a recreation game?@! is that true? How do you see it?
Here is a link to the bylaws. http://www.ntxsoccer.org/pages/rules.aspx The youth registration rules start at page 57. I cannot believe how formal they are for recreational teams. It appears that your association prohibits all dual rostering for recreational youth players as well as competitive players. The only exception is a dual rostering of players between a rec team and a rec plus team. This must drive the member associations nuts. It means that kids have to play on the same rec team all year or else the league has to formally apply for a transfer. That is so unnecessarily complicated. By contrast adult players may play on an unlimited number of teams. The only restriction is players can't be on teams that play each other. It appears that your league should not have registered the two players.
I'm new around here and don't want to ruffle feathers, but the score is not just for the parents. One quick look at the sides after a game makes it obvious who won and who lost. Big smiles for the winners, not so much for the losers. Winning matters! Its not the only thing that matters, but it does matter. The rest of the quote is very true. Maybe I should just shut up but I really feel that this PC culture of "winning is not important" is garbage. Kids sports should be fun for the kids and they do have more fun winning.
And, who do you think the little, impressionable kids take their cues from?? It's funny, when kids play at the park without a scoreboard, I don't see anyone crying when they lose. Kids hate losing, b/c parents look like lost puppies when their kids lose. End of. I've seen it at every level. If no adult cares about the score, neither does any kid.
You're right. I don't disagree with anything you said. But, society rewards excellence in everything we do. If a kid dances or plays piano only the best get to perform in recital, only the best HS band members get to play at the football game friday night, only the best singer gets the solo at the choir concert, only the fastest get to run at the track meet, etc. I'm sure you get my point. Society rewards excellence. It is not always correct, but it is the way it is. I don't think we can pretend that somehow soccer is different. I don't intend to be argumentative. I really do see your point. I just think that a youth coach has to be mindful of societal pressures to win. I think its a great concept to teach and train kids without thought of results. I just don't think its realistic in America. That may be one of the major reasons we are behind Europe in the game.
I just can't let this go, sorry. You're qualifying the wrong terms. Excellence is not defined by the score. Excellence is playing to your best level at all times. You can play like crap and win - if your teammates are amazing, or the other team stinks. You can play amazing and lose - if your teammates stink, or the other team is superior. Get the picture? A kid shouldn't judge his performance by the score. Subsequently, a kid shouldn't alter his mood based on score. The result at the YOUNG AGES is SO FAR OUT of the control of the individual player that it shouldn't even be a factor for parents, coaches, or players. If you want to win, go play bad teams. If you want to excel, learn to have fun and give 100% at all times regardless of what the scoreboard reads.
To be fair, I understand your angle. And, I understand that the "American" perspective is much in line with the question "Did you win?" However, I'll fight like hell until people learn to evaluate this game on different standards.
Our last two futsal games this winter, my U8 girls won 4-2 against a fairly equal team to us, and then lost 3-1 to a team that was much older and bigger than us and had beat us badly the first three times we played them, but the girls fought hard and never gave up. I was much more impressed with effort in the loss than the win and I told them that.
You have some mistaken assumptions. Youth soccer is about player development. Coaches should be concerned about developing players not winning games. It is not about "PC culture." And playing soccer is fun win or lose. As a player I even enjoyed practices.
Good point. Last summer, my U-11 boys team lost a really close semi-final match in the Schwan's USA Cup. Lost in the last 1-2 minutes, it was a tough loss. I was really proud to see that none of my boys were crying after the match, and when we were sitting under the tent after the match the general consensus from the team was that they weren't too upset about losing because they thought they played really well (which they did!). That's a big thing for me, because I have seen too much where there are kids the same age and older (and their parents) act like the world as ended when they lose an important soccer match. I guess they were a little disappointed because they didn't get to play for this huge silver trophy that looks like the Stanley Cup. Now only if I could get the majority of the parents over to my side of thinking. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for formations. We play 8-a-side. So a keeper and 7 outfield players. I coach a 2-4-1. -------------Forward------------- Winger----Mid-------Mid----Winger ----------Def-------Def----------- --------------Keeper-------------- The three things I have taught my players from this formation have been: the holding midfield position, the positioning of the wingers, and forward/midfield combinations in attack. I have never liked the terms attacking and defensive midfield. I think it creates too much separation between the two central midfielders if your players don't understand the concept right. So on an experiment I tried to explain the defensive midfielder position as a holding midfield position, and kind of to my surprise it worked. As for the positioning of wingers, I taught them the below. If the right winger is forward in attack and loses the ball, then the rest of the team has to adjust to cover the right winger. So my original formation looks like this in this given situation. It requires them to shift/cycle positions. It is still a work in progress, but when they can pull it off, it works great. --------------Forward-------Winger -------------Midfielder-------Ball--- ------Midfielder-----------Defender ------------Winger-----Defender My last coaching point was to work with the forward and his passing with the midfielders. In my 2-4-1, the forward is not the primary goal scorer. So I had to teach the forward not to always think that he was the primary goalscorer, but rather to keep his head up and also look for options. Sorry for the long post. Just my thoughts.