Iran also ended WW2. maybe not voluntarily but still. anyways, people have to stop being nationalistic in these protests... it is stupidity. immoral, relative economical advantages to the extent of life and death based on genes have to stop. we should be evolving... not regressing. harmless differences such as race/culture/language/tradition/religion (to the point you dont force it on others) may exist and will exist due to geographical differences. however, economical murder/lowering of quality of life needs to stop. we need a new type of central, hardline, morality-enforcing global dictatorship to enforce equality for a better future for each and all. funding will go to law enforcement initially to cope with the remnants of capitalist values until propaganda in schools rids kids minds of the retarded and illogical capitalist way of life. then there will be less of a need for law enforcement. capitalism will defeat itself eventually and turn into communism because all perverted and immoral systems/dictatorships will eventually implode.
I don't quite understand what you are saying about capitalism defeating itself eventually. That is certainly a possibility...but it hasn't happened yet...and I don't think all immoral systems/dictatorships eventually implode. For one, I don't think capitalism is immoral. Your income is gauged by how valuable you are to society. A medical doctor should have more power/revenue than a garbage man. I do think communism is immoral since while it sounds good on paper, in practice, it has shown that the most corrupt elements take power within the government. A state-controlled economy also means less freedom...which is immoral. Ah yes, the Tehran Conference! *lol*
So was Iran. Suggesting MB isn't dangerous because they're not leading the opposition and because the country is diverse completely misses the point. Hard to be a vicious theocrat when you have no power.
That impression is certainly being reinforced by all the used tear gas canisters lining the streets of Cairo, bearing the words "Made in U.S.A."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201122124446797789.html# It seems that the "Basij" in Iran 'inspired' the regime in Kairo now. Well, dictatorships in ME obviously need such methods... But in contrast to the Iranian regime, Mubarak is done. The question is who will be replacing him...
Looks like the military is about to abandon Mubarak. One of the key questions about the situation in Egypt is the extent to which the military supports a broad move toward a more open and democratic political system. As with any organization, the military has its own interests and they may or may not coincide with those of the broader society. I'm come to feel in recent weeks that the protesters might be making a mistake in making Mubarak's departure the focal point of their demand. To me they should be focusing more making the presidential elections scheduled for September a truely fair and open competition. The process of opening up the system to real political competition is more important than whether Mubarak hangs on for the next seven months. Whatever the case, the lastest news coming out suggests that Mubarak is a gonner.
Two down, how many left to go? After Ben Ali and Mubarak, there remains a large list of Arab countries that are ruled by regimes that are repressive in one way or another. Going roughly from West to East, the list includes: Mauritania Morocco Algeria Libya Sudan Lebanon Syria Jordan Saudi Arabia Yemen Oman Qatar (Yes them too) UAE Kuwait Bahrain Pressure for fundamental political change exists in all of these countries. The examples of Tunisia and Egypt will embolden and inspire those working for such change.
Jordan is the only other country that could do it. They are pro western and friends to the USA, if protests do happen they would not put them down violently IMO, the others would.
Last I heard, Algerians are soon to follow...we'll have see how the military reacts if people start to demonstrate en masse...the government might not be very scrupulous, but I still think that the individual soldiers might very well decide to not mow down their countrymen even when given the order from up high.
From the NY Times: In Bahrain, King Hamad Bin Isa al-Khalifa on Friday ordered the equivalent of $2,650 be given to every Bahraini family. He is facing a “Day of Rage” protest on Monday. Analysts there say he may announce reforms in a speech on Saturday. Good luck to the al-Khalifas.
But the Jordan king is sort of like the Belgian king.... the only thing keeping the country together. And he himself has just switched the government, so for 'real' change he'd have to go, and that seems rather unlikely atm.
The magic effects of westernization: http://palermo.repubblica.it/cronaca/2011/02/13/foto/lampedusa_allo_stremo-12399620/1/ http://palermo.repubblica.it/cronaca/2011/02/12/foto/lampedusa_sbarchi_senza_fine-12366391/1/ Tens of thousands of desperate Tunisians flocking to Italy, with many still stranded in international waters. In the words of one woman that was rescued by the Italian protezione civile (the EU is, as usual, MIA): "the country is in disarray, kidnappings, rapes and robberies are happening everywhere, nobody knows who's really in charge".
Where'd you read that? I dunno why the soldiers in Algeria would be unscrupulous, after all they did stage a coup against ISF that led to a civil war. The situation there is different from Egypt and potentially a lot more dangerous, with the situation in the Kabilye, their gas resources etc...
I read that in the German media. Here for example: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,745175,00.html It says that the Police clubbed down thousands of peaceful protesters yesterday. We'll have to wait and see whether that's the beginning or the end of a similar movement in Algeria.
Algeria has a long history of brutally suppressing it's opposition, even more so than Egypt. In my estimation they are more like Iran, where hundreds can "disappear" without too much concern. Unlike Egypt, which hasn't really had too much violence inflict on the society, Algeria had a brutal Civil War that just ended. So the populations tolerance is much different in the two countries. From what I have seen, the things that make this recent uprisings successful, at least so far as getting rid of their rulers, is that the countries are relatively stable and educated, just that the regime is corrupt and rotting. Tunisia and Egypt are both relatively stable and educated societies, compared to say Sudan, or Algeria. There was a good article in the Times about how the Egyptian movement took a lot of lessons from Serbia, America and others on non violent resistance and one of their main leaders Wael Ghonim is a tech savy google marketing executive. They also both had militaries that were willing to take over, usher out the unpopular leader and retain the support of the population. That's why I don't have much hope for the rabble rousers in places like Yemen or Sudan. Those countries are just too unstable too really see a unified resistance movement that could capture the nation to unite against the ruling class. I would guess that the most likely where this could work would be: Jordan: only to the point that they would push for more say in the governing process and limited reforms. I don't see a push to remove the monarchy. But perhaps being able to elect the cabinet or prime minister could rally a significant opposition. moderate Bahrain: Rules by Sunnis, in a majority Shitte country. It's leaders have been relatively oppressive and brutal (relative) and have significantly alienated the population. The difference, it appears the rulers of Bahrain are trying to get out ahead of the protests and offer reforms before any protests materialize. Wether that will satisfy them remains to be seen. Moderate to high Kuwait: They might not want a complete take down of the regime, but there remains rumblings of protests seeking reforms. Low UAE: There have been rumblings of some of the Emirates who are less fortunately geographically (ie no Oil) resenting the big boys in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. They also chaff at the strong controls over media and speech imposed there. Low but One to watch Qatar I think is the least likely of all. Nearly every Qatari is a millionaire and the country has not been restricted in the same ways as other Arab countries (Al-Jazeera anyone?) and the oil wealth is shared liberally among "citizens."
Some of these rulers (monarchs) do have a base of support (not a majority but a base nonetheless) that could enable them to ride out the storm if they are nimble enough to enact some reforms. I think Jordan and Bahrain are in this group. Less sure about Morocco, where I think the current King is less respected than his father was. Others may be able to hold on through the mass bloodshed or the threat thereof. In all of those cases, the key question is what the army does when the local tyrant orders them to fire on the crowds. Countries in this group include Algeria, Libya, Sudan and Syria. In general, these countries have a less developed middle class and civil society than Tunisia and Egypt and the protesters will have a harder time developing the critical mass that was seen in those countries. I would not rule that happening, but it will be more difficult and take more time. Then you have the rich Gulf states, which each have their own dynamics. Saudi Arabia--lots of resentment from the population about various things but the regime keeps a tight lid on things. Kuwait, which is relatively liberal in terms of political development. Qatar, with more of an issue regarding the guest workers. I tend to think these countries will be last in terms of generating a radical change in their political system and in some cases this is more likely to happen through reform from above. To me the most interesting group for now is the middle group--Algeria, Libya, Sudan, and Syria. Will the protesters gain traction and critical mass? Will the regime be required to engage with them politically rather than just break up the protests? Will they reach a point where the army is called in the play a role? Will the army do what its political masters ask of it? The answer to all of those questions is we don't know. But I think what happens in each of those countries can set a pattern and have spillover effects in the others.
Considering that Saudi Arabia was advocating to the US and Egypt to shoot the protesters and back Mubarak unconditionally, I don't hesitate to think what they would do to their own people.