Perhaps contagion effect is a better descriptor than domino effect. The point is that people watch and can learn from and can be inspired by events in other countries, especially if they see parallels to the state of affairs in their own country.
contagion effect implies the same thing as domino effect. and I've never claimed that people can't be inspired by what other people do in other countries, I've acknowledged that. my point was that this was only a very small part of what happened in Eastern Europe in '89. if you insist on drawing parallels between '89 and the Middle East today than you should certainly look and focus at the interconnected invents that bought down East European dictatorships, otherwise any comparison is completely meaningless.
How about 1848, another year of revolutions. It seems to me that in that year, it wasn't a question of a change in policy (via Gorbachev) from a major occupying power that triggered a series of revolutions. Rather it was a common set of oppressive conditions and popular disatisfaction with those conditions. And it does seem that in 1848 revolutions in one country spread like a contagion to neighboring countries. Of course, that is simplistic too. But I don't think there is any doubt that contagion (the power of example) can be a powerful force when you have a common set of oppressive conditions and popular disatisfaction and yearning for something better.
I don't know enough about that to comment. I'm generally not an expert in history, it's just that I lived through 1989 first hand, so happen to have a very good understanding of what happened then. maybe things will spread beyond Tunisia through contagion alone, maybe not. but if it does, it will certainly not be a similar development to Easter Europe.
Tunisia I just hope that whoever and whatever form of government replaces the oppressive regimes of most north African & Middle East countries are not themselves oppressive. Being in charge should not equate to tyranny and the suppression of opposing points of view, whether political, economic, religious or social.
On the 1848 comparision: Basically they all also fired on each other. German nationalism in 1848 for example affected Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium directly, and sparked Polish and Czech nationalism. To see 1848 as an example for a domino effect is just wrong, just as it was in 1989. Speaking about which, German news reported on people protesting the same issues as in Tunisia in Jordan today. And a pirate Party member has been made interim minister of youth and education (according to his own twitter feed, so it was possibly a joke, but who knows).
always thought of sidefootsetter as being more of a talleyrand type. imo early 90s eastern europe was more about the decline and collapse of a superpower and with it imperial influence. there had been attempts at change before--prague spring--but the metropole was too robust to be overcome. 1848 is a better analog. leaders weren't prepared for the demands and the potency of the new urban working classes created by the industrial revolution. leaders in arab world and middle east generally sucked at economic management but a fair number i believe invested pretty heavily in education. so perhaps what we're seeing is change propelled by the underemployed educated. iran govt snuffed out an uprising recently. in the instance of tunisia looks like ben ali lost all his juice with even the army
Revolutions?? That was the result of a war that lasted 50 years. I don't see how any comparison with Tunisia can be made. And look what that 'freer and more democratic sociery' got them...mass emigration, slave salaries, racial abuse, no national self pride, unbearable inequality, mafiosi and western capitalists eating up their public resources, wars, ethnic cleansings...
All of which was/is totally absent in communist regimes, of course. Is this Germany's fault as well, btw? ;-)
Really stupid of them to get rid of this utopian paradise then...one wonders what could possibly have prompted for example the Romanians to get rid of the dear Ceauşescu, only to replace him with an evil democratic society and thereby basically choosing to be enslaved by greedy bankers and suppressed by racists.
No-one got rid of anything, it was a war that lasted decades, it' obvious that when one belligerant side loses things are gonna change drastically, even if the local population doesn't want to (just think about Germany in 1945...). To still go on about a 'spontaneous' revolution 20 years after the communist systems were defeated is a sign of either bitter bias or unexcusable ignorance. It's like saying that Nazism was defeated by the 'good' Americans by themselves. Good for some B-movie scripts, maybe, but completely detached from reality. As for Ceasescu...he was a piece of shit and I'm personally convinced he would have been kicked out regardless of the cold war and its effects. But probably not replaced with a rogue liberal-democratic government that allowed Western pimps to invade the country and force people to either get out and lose their dignity in Italy/Spain, exploited and abused by the native population, or accept jobs with slave wages and terrible working conditions in poor quality plants. No wonder half of Romanians don't even take part in the 'democratic' circus and a good portion miss the communist system (despite the propaganda they've had to endure starting from 1990). Also, it's not like non-communist Europe was a beacon of freedom...I mean, in West Germany you couldn't get jobs if you had certain political ideas, in Italy you would get tortured in jail...and let's not even mention the Nato supporters Franco and Salazar or the Greek colonels.
mattteo really cracks me up no end. he gave me a neg-rep for post #25 with the words "Long live Erich Honecker" reality is a bitch, eh mattteo?
It was the least I could do...you praised a war criminal and boasted about being directly responsible for the anschluss...
haha, Gorbachev a war criminal and Honecker a hero, you really couldn't make it up! and I only had to live in that car crash of a state, while you can relax in your cosy Italy, so what do I know.
If you vocally disagree with matteo, no matter how reasonable and civil you are, he'll neg rep you. Just consider it a rite of passage for posting in P&CE.
?? It's probably the first neg rep I ever gave for a post on this forum (not counting racist messages or reps given in retaliation). What are you talking about??
Cosy?? East Germany had a higher per-capita GDP than Italy...now it's on par with Naples or Palermo...
1) Those numbers were obviously inflated, hence the economic collapse that brought communism down. 2) Even if that weren't the case, what good is a high GDP when you're trapped in an oppressive state?