Trillions upon trillions in offshore tax havens

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by HeartandSoul, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ... of the money a company makes - in retrospect, it probably would have been better to say "all" but that's quibbling over semantics. Or the rantings of an English major ;)

    I stand by what I said. Twist it how you want.
     
  2. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK. My wife's company was purchased 10 years ago and was bringing in $1-2 M a year in revenue. 8 years after the now CEO purchased it, he expanded it to about $35 M. he brought in a CFO and hopes to grow it to $75 M.

    What, in your mind, should everyone be making? If the CEO is making a couple million a year, is that beyond his worth? If the CFO's actions bring in an additional $45 Million, what should his compensation be in your mind?

    You see the bad apples on TV news. There are hundreds of small/mid-size companies where the compensation is worth it.
     
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  3. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I said citizens
     
  4. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Good post.

    My father took a business in the red and sold it in 2000 for about $45mil 20yrs later.

    His yearly compensation topped out at about $200k (I believe), but he did retain a large % of ownership in the company. When it sold, he got a big payout.

    Conversely, he consulted other businesses after his sale for several years, some of which were former competitors. One particular account shocked my father: the company was doing about half the revenue as my father's business did at the time its sale, but the CEO was paying himself over $5ook/yr. My dad thought that was unconscionable, but I guess he simply had a different set of priorities.
     
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  5. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago

    Escobar being a good guy was not the intention of the paragraph. I wasnt attempting to elevate Escobar but to denigrate corporate America.
     
  6. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    And I think here is where most of us focus our grievances. We are not criticizing medium sized companies that pay their CEOs a few millions and that take their companies to newer levels. We criticize the Walmarts and the McDonalds and the JP Morgans of the world that rely on the unholy trinity of lobbying, cheap labor and lack of social responsibility to boost their profits (and hence their paychecks) while undermining the core of the American economy.

    Giant corporations should not exist or at the very least they should be required to pay fair wages and higher taxes in exchange for access to the resources that this country offers them.
     
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  7. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, you failed
     
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  8. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And then you ask why they keep money in other countries? Do you get the circular nature of your argument yet?
     
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  9. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    What was first, the chicken or the egg?

    Profits or tax havens?
     
  10. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Egg, of an animal that was not a chicken

    Not sure I would consider Ireland and Holland tax havens, rather the US and UK tend to be tax hogs.
     
  11. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Resident citizens & expat citizens, then.
    Aren't many Europeans "tax exiles", taking up residency in other countries to avoid taxes on resident citizens within their own countries?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_exile
     
  12. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Can you distinguish between revenue & profit? If the company grossed $2M per year, but netted $100K (5%), then grew to gross $35M, but still only netted $100K, what should the CEO earn? If it grows to $75M, but still only profits $100K, what should the new CFO earn?
    Are there any shareholders, who invested money? What are they entitled to? A dividend? Return on capital? If the CEO is both president & sole owner, should he be compensated with salary? Dividends/capital gains?
     
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  13. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Presumably, though, it had an original purchase price, and a value, even when losing money.
    A decision to pay 15% capital gains tax, rather than 38% income tax?
     
  14. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
  15. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Your cynicism is insulting.
     
  16. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Some would call it wise. I made no judgment.
     
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  17. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Fvkc-all I'd say as he needs sacking :D
     
  18. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Unfortunately that's quite common.

    People, particularly those with MBA's and other, (in my experience), worthless bits of paper, seem to think they're entitled to such sums, despite the fact that all they're doing is taking over a business that somebody ELSE has started and run it, sometimes with very mixed results.

    The truth is that running an established business or, more accurately, maintaining an established business, often isn't that hard. Frankly, in some cases, these people are simply 'managers' rather than CEO's and almost ANYONE with a modicum of business experience could do the job.

    As long as you've got good people in important positions, it can be pretty easy.

    Now building a business... THAT can be difficult, depending on the business involved, obviously.

    It always makes me laugh when I see people wittering on about how they're geniuses because they've made money in the property market in Britain or the US over the past, say 20-30 years. TBH you'd have to be a complete idiot NOT to make money in that business.

    Like the banksters, it IS possible to lose money but you've got to be a special kind of moron.

    IMO a lot of the problems of banking, for example, have arisen precisely because they were paid too MUCH money. It attracted the wrong sort of person... people who were attracted to short-term profits at the expense of long-term investment and that's what caused the situation we're all in now.
     
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  19. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this snark?
     
  20. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Your post spoke about the companies 'boosting revenue' but not whether they made any profit.

    It makes a difference, y'know... ;)
     
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  21. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get that, being a business owner;).

    I don't know what her companies profit margins are, it's privately held.
     
  22. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    #97 JBigjake, May 1, 2014
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  23. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  24. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
  25. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How much of Pfizer's earning were made with US sales? That's the amount they should be paying US tax on.
     

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