Trillions upon trillions in offshore tax havens

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by HeartandSoul, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. Ties5o11

    Ties5o11 Member

    Aug 11, 2011
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is true that this is by far and away his best option, but this essentially amounts to the government seizing the Bald Eagle.

    (not that I feel that bad for a guy who inherited a stuffed bald eagle... but still)
     
  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...es-206-billion-as-apple-to-ibm-avoid-tax.html

    Didn't we have a Prez Candidate that wanted to chop Sesame Street?
     
  3. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    C'mon Matt, it's EVERYBODY'S money, not those that earned it. The should bring it back so 18%-36% can be redistributed!
     
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  5. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  6. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ha ha funny.
    dude, the CEO or CFO hardly earn any of the money a company makes, that would be the workers - do you want to argue that they deserve to keep more of it? That's union organizer talk ;-)

    Skirting your taxes is unAmerican and you should be ridiculed (and turned-in) by your peers and shunned by your customers.
     
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  7. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How long do you think any company would be around without executives? To say a CEO or CFO don't earn any money is simply jealousy or ignorance, take your pick. I know my company wouldn't be around if I left everything to my shop employees.
     
  8. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Turned in for what? There is no crime being committed.
     
  9. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't say they didn't earn any money (they earn some or most of their paychecks like the rest of us), you read poorly.

    I said they "earn" less of the total money a company makes than their actual workers do.
    What they get paid seems to imply the opposite of that truth, but does not make it any less true.
    How well would your company do if all you had was those executives, if they did the actual work? I am guessing less than if you let the employees handle the excess profits without the execs ;) Obviously you need both, even if we probably differ on where we'd invest the most ;)

    Hiding that money from the tax man (and I would assume also the shareholders and workers) is not responsible behavior, it's basically stealing.

    tax evasion is legal now? I mean it's fully accepted and expected by many, but it's still not legal or proper behavior
     
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  10. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    You are correct regarding the need of a director and the executives, but more to the point, the best paid CEOs aren't usually the best performers and the income ratio with average workers in the US is the highest in the developed world; in other words most highly paid CEOs don't earn the money that they make and are higly overrated regarding their importance to their companies.

    Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/08/28/4440246/high-ceo-pay-doesnt-mean-high.html#storylink=cpy
     
  11. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not evasion if the US government doesn't have a legal right to the money.

    Want to know what's basically stealing? How the US claims that they can tax their citizens for money made out of the boundaries of the US while no other modern country on the planet has such huevos to claim the same.
     
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  12. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    You said they "hardly" earn their money and I disagree with that for the most part. There are instances of people not earning their money regardless of their position so CFO or CEO aren't any different in that respect. You just notice it more because of the large amount of compensation.

    As to your comment about my company, I am generally on the floor either doing or overseeing the assembly being done so I would have to say I earn my keep, even by your definition.

    If I let my employees handle the profit (there is no such thing as excess profit:p) they would all be driving new cars until the electric company came by to shut off the power.

    I would also like to note the companies in dapip's original article are categorized as multinationals based in the US. Why do you think a multinational has some sort of responsibility to bring all their cash onshore? Your only true argument would be if they are transferring cash made in the US to offshore accounts. Keeping cash made in other countries in places where they aren't being taxed makes good business sense.
     
  13. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought this was obvious. Apparently not.
     
  14. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It isn't to the redistribution crowd.
     
  15. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Given that these "multinational" corporations have infinitely more access to government at all levels than I have, I don't think it's excessively redistributivist to think they should pay for it in ways that benefit the commonweal.

    It's that enhanced access that has, over recent decades, redistributed wealth upwards and, apparently increasingly, offshore.
     
  16. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    @stanger
    I think the outrage at ridiculous CEO compensation is absolutely just, but I don't think most CEO's/CFO's are overpaid.

    We're looking at examples of executives in niche markets (finance, ginormous box stores like walmart and home depot and McDonalds, boards of directors of said companies, etc.) taking redonkulous compensation packages not necessarily tied to performance whilst average workers are refused better wages.

    I agree that the general CEO outrage is overblown.
     
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  17. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    The difference between these people and Pablo Escobar is that Escobar feed the poor and wasnt good at paying off the political process so as to make his endeavors legal.
     
  18. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually Escobar was great at paying off the political process. They wrote laws to protect him personally

    Further, Escobar was involved in a business that shouldn't be illegal in the first place so I actually don't mind your comparison.
     
  19. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't that just mean that the nation state is outdated?
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You said hardly earn any. That is the paying a coach lots of money or not, sure the players win the games, but the coaches may do a little something, and many do get paid lots for it, specially in the NCAA.

     
  21. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Not if what replaces it is a system operating for the benefit of multi national corporations. (I merely said they have way more access to government than I do. That doesn't mean my local government wasn't responsive when I complained about a rim-busting pothole on my street).

    Besides, so long as said multinationals occasionally need military assistance, the nation state will be just fine.
     
  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again there is a difference between earnings from outside the USA and paying taxes on earnings inside the USA.

    Sure there are accounting tricks that companies use to hide money in off shore accounts that they earned in the USA, I am ok with trying to fix this issue.

    My issue is people wanting corporations paying US taxes for income they made in India for example.
     
  23. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Escobar was elected in served in the Colombian Congress if I remember correctly.

    I wouls also guess that Wal-mart (a company I fvking hate) has helped more poor people than Escobar ever did. (now we can argue they have hurt small shop owners)
     
  24. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    As a matter of fact, he was part of the political process, having been elected to the Senate. I also have a problem with Drug Wars and that prohibition is at the root of the issue but I also think that a market like that should be heavly regulated. But that does not mean that Escobar was not a criminal.

    Or that corporations are supreme beings that should override states... They have rights and free speech already..


    I think that the notion of him as a good guy because he fed some people or built soccer fields is ludicrous. He was first and foremost a criminal and that he decided to do good thing with the money he earned by criminal means does not wash the blood away.
     
  25. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Aren't you confusing taxing residents with taxing expatriates?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax
    AFAIK, most of the people with money stashed overseas are living here, not residents of other countries.
     
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