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Discussion in 'Mexicans Abroad' started by sidspaceman, Jul 25, 2012.
Spaniard teams are broke, really doubt he goes there.
Hiram Mier en la mira de clubes europeos. En Fórmula Deportiva
THIS IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TOO ALL FREAKING SUMMER WAS JUST A CHANCE FOR HIM TO GO TO EUROPE BECAUSE I FEEL IF HE GOES HE WILL BE REALLY SUCCESSFULL, HIS STYLE OF DEFENDING SUITS EUROPE REAL WELL!!!!
nomas en la europa porq el titulo de liga ni madres que se la ganan al barca y real
Translation: We don't give a shit about him improving his career in Europe. They didn't offer as much money as we expected, period.
Translation: We have an unrealistic/close-minded perspective on the importance of our league and we would rather cockblock our players' moves to Europe if it means making $ now.
Whats up with that? Are the Mexican teams really not making much off of these deals? It seems like they turn them down pretty quickly. Also it seems like Spanish teams are always in a ton of debt.
south american players are being bought for a lot more money that's for sure
Well then I am fine with our clubs turning down teams that want to pay peanuts for our players.
Rodríguez is an idiot. One million and a half dollars for a year-loan is a lot of money. If he does well, it serves to put his player in the market and would have got a lot more, if he doesn't he will get back his player with European experience and would have got the fee (plus the amount he saves in wages) in the club's bank account.
you have to look from his perspective. what would it cost him to replace him with another player with similar or greater quality?
don't forget players are assets and assets return value in multiple ways. also an owner of asset would never intentionally depreciate it.
so maybe you're the idiot for not being open minded and looking at both sides.
(En el programa deportivo, se comentó que Mier está en la mira de España, Italia e Inglaterra)
what the fack does that mean, it just mean they talked about it withen themselves on their show, making up rumors without a base
Ohhh, a feud! I love those!
I was actually looking at the economic side so it was HIS side I was looking at not the footballer's but other than the fact that you didn't notice that (hence, you cannot really call me an idiot), let's dissect it for you, word by word to see if you can reach it this time.
An owner of an asset will depreciate it "intentionally" if he doesn't realize how the market works. Your asset will gain value if it's scarce enough and it's showcased in a bigger market, which is what I'm criticizing Rodríguez for not realizing. He doesn't realistically know what the value of a Mexican central defender is when comparing him with what PSG paid for Thiago Silva, probably the best defender of the world, bought by a uber-rich investor that is not behaving is the rest of the market is.
So, you have two choices, you either sacrifice the short-term in favour of a longer-term gain which is what, of all people, Jorge Vergara has done with great success, or you behave like Rodríguez and many other owners of Mexican teams have in the past (and have not made any money out of them, how many players have Tigres sold to Europe in the past few years? I rest my case).
It is true that Tigres cannot replace the player with another of similar quality at the moment. But 1.- that's NOT the argument Rodríguez made, 2.- there was interest in Ayala during the whole summer and Tigres did nothing to address it which means that they were never interested on letting him go.
So, who's the idiot now?
I encourage continued discussion on this issue. However, please refrain from using insults when making your points.
Your cooperation is appreciated.
WTF, you're a mod now?!
Lol. You're not the first person with that response...
Your entire argument is based on a HUGE assumption that Ayala's value will have a net increase when the loan expires. European experience and loan money+wages is a weak consolation prize considering losing Ayala hurts team performance.
If they did the loan, Tigres entrusts their prized asset 100% to Mallorca. Tigres has to trust Mallorca and Ayala in increasing the value, i.e., they have no direct input on appreciating the asset.
Need I remind you of the recent Euro flame-outs like Barrera, Juarez, Guarch, and even further Bravo and Kikin Fonseca. You can even look at Gio's situation with a coaching change and to a lesser extent Vela at Arsenal. Bottom line is there are more recent situations of Euro failure then success for many different reasons. This stands to reason that Ayala's value is more likely to be less (or equal) upon loan expiration.
This is why I believe Tigres (Rodriguez) are insisting that if Ayala leaves it would be a sale not a loan. They cannot afford to lose a star player for a year and have him worth less upon return.
From a monetary perspective, Tigres cannot realize any capital appreciation until he is sold and will only see a net appreciation if the sale price is more than what it cost to build the player. Or in this case his purchase price from Atlas, I think ~2m dollars. Post loan, net appreciation seems the unlikely scenario for the reasons stated.
From a risk perspective looking at recent history, potential injury, coaching change, loss of player management, etc.., it appears to me that the risk is very high for Tigres. You can argue that with high risk comes high reward BUT it's easy for you to say Tigres should take the risk since it isn't your money or player.
Bottom line, there is more uncertainty with this loan than certainty you believe in. Tigres are being risk averse and I' can't blame them.
So you're not an idiot but neither is Tigres/Rodriguez. Let's just say I wouldn't let you manage my stock portfolio.
I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you but its worth noting Mexican defenders have generally performed well in Europe and have represented better value in terms of returns than our attackers...
Marquez, Moreno, Salcido, Osorio, etc.
Assuming that Tigres paid Atlas 2 million to buy him and they were being offered 1.5 milion for a season loan, I have to agree with Martin. I think the potential reward considerably outweighs the risk...
Maybe at two million it does (break even point, at least) considering also the potential risk of injury.
He's been at Tigres for 2 season already. I'd say they've already seen some value for the money. And is he really more likely to get injured in Spain than in Mexico? That's why teams buy insurance...
just want to point out everybody you mentioned were sold not loaned.
i did come checking looks like 2.3 million.
so you think 1.5 million + 1 year loss of player services = 2.3 million + plus return of player?
Assuming 1 year loss of player cancels out when player returns, then 1.5m != 2.3m. Getting part of your original purchase price back is not worth it.
I respect everyone's opinion but IMHO, I think maybe a full purchase (no loan) at 3m+ then Tigres would/should do it. I mean even Salcido was sold for ~3m and that was in '06. Let's not forget inflation!!!
Also let's be honest, Hugo Ayala's don't grow on trees. That fact alone makes him more valuable.
edit- I just want to add, I hope Ayala goes to Europe. I'm always in favor of challenging yourself and proving yourself. But we can't forget it's a business. So Mallorca, if you really want this player, MAN UP and pay what is deserved!!!
For the money being offered, I like the loan. Of course there are risks but if he performs well, would then be open for offers from other teams in Europe, not just broke Spanish teams.
But then again, he could do well and Tigres could demand a king's ransom in which case he'd probably stay in Mexico. I realize players like him don't grow on tress but if Tigres did their homework, they could probably find a solid if not spectacular replacement at a reasonable price. The Atlases of the world are always ready to be raided...
So you're not accepting a 1.5 million offer for a loan but are willing to accept a 3 million transfer bid?? That doesn't make sense at all. The ratio loan/transfer is usually about 1 to 5 so, for Tigres, Ayala's value is 7.5 million, which is totally unrealistic, given the fact that Chicharito was sold for that amount, he's a striker and he was younger.
There's no bigger risk of injury in Spain than in Mexico, so that doesn't make much sense either. As for the value of the player, except for a potential injury (which could happen anywhere) there's no way it would decrease, for several reasons. Looking at Mallorca's squad, Ayala would be an instant starter there, so he would have the chance of playing week in week out with players of bigger caliber than the ones he plays against in Mexico. He will have the chance to be showcased for bigger clubs or even Mallorca themselves could buy him with the help of their Riviera Maya sponsorship. Also, Chepo de la Torre has had a penchant for choosing European-based players, so his status in the National team would improve as he could have a chance to prove he's better than Moreno or Maza. It's not the same selling the 4th choice CB of the National team than one of the starters.
The only real downside is that Tigres doesn't have a CB as good as him in their squad, but they have decent players this season and, frankly, they could get a very good stopgap for one third the amount they would have got from Mallorca. So, I don't back down at all from my initial statement about Rodríguez, and I wouldn't trust myself to manage my assets, heck, I wouldn't choose anyone, as every study out there has shown that 95% of the hedge managers don't outperform the market any better than if you would choose your assets in a random way.