You sure Rivaldo outplayed Zidane that year? The Serie A pundits gave Rivaldo a "Wooden Spoon" trophy for being so bad for AC Milan. @leadleader
then you are totally Off THE SCALE in watching football. In Skills overall, Riquelme was better then all of them ... In vision, Riquelem and Rui Costa were the two best in that crowd and were more "unpredictable" , more "versatile" in passing ranges. Valderama was better in short passing and thruballs ... Iniesta looked great in tikitaka - short passing within 15yards and thru balls (more like Valderama)
juan roman riquelme, one of the finest passer in history always broke the tight defence like a hot knife through butter his long range passing:
How could I possibly know if Rivaldo outplayed Zidane that year? And when did I ever suggested or even implied such a thing? I don't have a problem with admitting when I am wrong about something, and I don't believe for a second that I am always correct when it comes to football-related subjects, but I honestly don't remember saying that Rivaldo had a better "year" than Zidane? The only thing I know is that Rivaldo, as a passer, completely outclassed Zidane when Real Madrid played against AC Milan in the 2002/2003 Champions League. If Zidane is a top 10 all-time passer, why did Rivaldo made better passes than him in such an important game? It's just weird how a "top 10" all-time passer rarely makes great passes against great teams. His World Cup performances are not filled with great passes. His Champions League performances are also not filled with great passes, even if he did produced one or two great passes once every full moon. And the same goes for his La Liga career, with the small difference that he appeared to care even less about La Liga matches. Like I said before, I have seen Zidane in his 2001/2002 form, playing against teams such as "Gimnastica", Real Sociedad, Rayo Vallecano, Villarreal, Deportivo Alaves, etc. And "great passes" by Zidane against such a level of opposition, well I just expected much more from a player as highly rated as Zidane.
Zidane picked Brazil apart in the WC98 final with his passing, but the useless donkeys Guivarach and Dugarry sent them ball to the stands in every opportunity. His passing was also top level against Italy in the WC06 final. @leadleader
Was it his passing or was it his intelligence? I don't remember one single "great pass" against Brazil. I remember him making a good run and sending a simple pass to some player who should've done better, a clear scoring chance Zidane created, but I wouldn't say that it was his pass what created the chance, much more important was his technique and intelligence. A great pass for me is what Maradona did against Romania at the 1990 World Cup, or what Riquelme did against Ivory Coast at the 2006 World Cup, or what Xavi Hernandez did against Arsenal in the 2009/2010 Champions League, or what Andrea Pirlo did in the last Euros, etc. Those aren't low-risk passes such as the ones Zidane pulled off against Brazil. Those are high-risk passes that require a very precise touch as well as timing. I simply don't remember Zidane doing anything like that, from open-play, against a difficult opponent in a high profile match. And if Zidane vs Brazil qualifies as "great passing", then, Xavi and Pirlo must be much greater passers than Zidane by all means, because they did that against many more teams, not just against a Brazil team that was playing with a questionable R9. Rivaldo's pass vs Real Madrid was far better than any pass by Zidane at the 1998 World Cup. Which again, brings me back to the point: why is Zidane even considered a top 10 passer of all time? A player who is very intelligent, who can control the tempo of a game, is not necessarily a particularly great passer. If we were talking about the "greatest tempo players" then, maybe, I would understand why Zidane would be rated so highly. But if we are talking about pure passing, then, I can think of a dozen players from the last 15 years alone, who were better passers than Zidane.
I have to disagree, to me Zidane, along with Riquelme, Alex, Pirlo and Xavi are the best passers of the past 15 years. Zidane made some great passes to Guivarach from midfield but the French strikers could not capitalize on them because of their incompetence. Also, what does Ronaldo have to do with this, it wasn't like he would have been assigned to mark Zidane if he had been 100% fit (and how much of an excuse is that anyways?).
Ronaldo I think is a tricky subject since I believe it inevitably falls on speculation. It is possible that what supposedly happened to him, traumatic as it was, might have traumatized a couple of Brazil's key player, for example, Roberto Carlos who supposedly witnessed the whole thing. So that's one way Ronaldo could have affected the performance of his own team, and by extension, Zidane's performance on the day. It is speculation but, at the same time, it is perfectly logical. The same thing could have happened to France had Zidane been the one to suffer from a nervous breakdown or whatever it was that truly happened to Ronaldo. But again, it is speculation. Against Brazil, Zidane made dangerous passes perhaps, but not great passes in my esteem. His most dangerous pass was a very short pass forwards, a pass that required little to no vision and, really, not a great deal of ability. Anyways, we can't agree on everything In my opinion, Francesco Totti was a better passer, Xavi is a better passer, Pirlo is a better passer, Riquelme was a better passer, Ronaldinho was a better passer, Cesc Fabregas is a better passer, Sneijder was a better passer, Beckham was a better passer, and I'm sure I'm forgetting at least two names from the last 15 years. I think Zidane was a player who could make very spectacular passes once every full moon, much like Ibrahimovic can score incredible goals every now and then, but that doesn't make Ibra one of the top 10 goal scorers of all time, nor should it make Zidane one of the top 10 passers of all time. Zidane was a very inconsistent passer, despite having some of the world's best strikers in front of him for most of his club career. Furthermore, I have seen *enough* occasions in which Zidane completely misses a clear chance because he is looking sideways instead of forwards, situations in which a clever pass forwards would have unlocked the defense, yet situations that were lost on Zidane as he was looking for the simple safe-ball sideways. He just isn't a top 10 passer, and the more games I watch of him, the more I doubt he would even make it to the top 20 best passers of all time. I can appreciate your point, but can't agree with it.
That's true .,.. Zidane was never a "threat" in goals, nor he was a great scorer (given chances) However, I can buy in your argument that "Zidane might not make into TOP10 best passers" (reasonable dependent on criteria) but then you went TOO FAR to say things like ... Cecs, Sneijder, Beckham .... were better passers then Zidane ... It's kinda acceptable with Riquelme, or M Laudrups, or Socrates or Didi or Xavi ... though I remember Beckham's comment during an interview in his first season at Real Madrid, early 2005: asked: who is the best player in the galacticos team? Beck: "mmm, it must be Zidane. Well I maybe be biased to say so since he played in midfield like me. I think I had improved quite a lot for being able to play along and learn from him"
That's a sensible point. But my point is that Zidane was more intelligent than Beckham, Zidane (like Xavi or Iniesta) knew what was going on around the pitch before he even touched the ball, and that is a very rare ability. But do I consider Zidane a better passer than Beckham? Well I believe that depends entirely on how you define what "passing" is, and I believe that intelligence and passing are separate abilities. In terms of passing, I think Beckham produced more difficult passes, more consistently, than Zidane. Zidane was a superior "midfield maestro" but as a passer I don't think he was particularly amazing.
not at all ... Beckham was ONE DIMENSIONAL passer! But he was among the TOP10 best in long cross in history though ... but that's about it. I do not know where your claim coming from ... even Beckham would turn RED face for that LOL
Beckham played on the right, obviously, when you play on the sides of the pitch as opposed to the center of the pitch, your passing will inevitably be more "one-dimensional" when compared to a midfielder who plays as a central figure. Do tell, do you expect a wing player to be great at the type of pass that cannot be made from the wings? Beckham I don't believe would turn red, but then again, I could not care less about whatever it is that Beckham would think. I can see and judge for myself. Beckham could create an assist out of nothing more consistently than Zidane could -- creating assists out of nothing is more difficult than simple short passes such as the ones that Zidane served up as "assists". James you have a very serious problem with perception, instead of disagreeing like a decent and mature person would, you always feel the need to disrespect anyone who does not agree with you. You have shown your disrespectful personality here and also when debating anything about R9. The next time you say the next laughable thing about R9, I will be sure to respond with a "R9 would turn red for that LOL!!" -- do not complain if you feel in any way insulted as I would be merely responding with your very own token. NOTE R9 would in fact turn red if he read half the (completely idiotic) things you say about him.
and until you stop hating Zidane, that may make you a bit more sensical! For your info in case you never watched Zidane: Zidane played on LEFT for Real at least 5years ... and never that made him become a one dimensional. Ronaldinho spent 5years with Barca on the left, and never that made him one dimensional! Figo spent >15years on the right and no one would call him as one dimensional in passing G Best played (average) >8years on right and >6years on left and that never made him one dimensional ... .. now you want more???? totally none sense (and completely Idiotic ) comment! Gosh Now R9 was once the new Pele and millions out there believed he could become betetr or replace Pele maradona ... so? axctually he would turn red (angry) for some one who knows nothing of football but try to comment like a pro
You are absolutely delusional if you believe Valderrama and Riquelme had better technique than Zidane and Rui Costa. I mean even with all the ranting and raving you do for with Valderrama with his 'great' passing, intelligence and technique why was he considered a failure in two of the better leagues in Europe or even on the World stage? Lack of consistency or tougher opposition? Even in their bad games players like Zidane and Costa always had their technique to rely on. Even with Riquelme he may have displayed some great technique over his career but I really don't recall it to the consistency and level in comparison to the likes of Zidane, Ronaldinho, Rui Costa or even Xaviniesta. These player's were/are the epitome of technique. Riquelme gets overrated in this aspect, along with his ball retention ability or "shielding" as you like to call it. Here's the thing, one can't deny Riquelme's ability to shield the ball the way he did, but more often than not he would either go to ground or subsequently get fouled. What set players with great ball retention/possession like Zidane, Laudrup, Ronaldinho was their ability to create while retaining the ball usually from a clever pass or a flick. Marcelo Lippi once said Zidane was the best when it came to this ability. Again not that Riquelme or any other fine playmaker didn't, but not to the level of the aforementioned players from what I recall. As for his great passes in the World Cups, I thought he had some fine passing displays on all aspects, are you intentionally being obtuse? From mid range to long range, creative passing, possession passing, assist attempts and general ball distribution...I thought he had some great displays against South Africa,Italy and Brazil of the top of my head. Who is this in comparison to (Wcup), Platini, Charlton, Xavi? Like what are your requirements here. Here's the reality, most of us don't need to rely on a 10 min YouTube clip to substantiate our opinion on Zidane's great ability and talent, if anything I feel those clips don't do enough justice for the player, his greatness has transcended though time and a generation regardless. The irony in all this is that it seems that players like the Riquelme's and Valderrama's are the one's that need the outlet clips and highlights on YouTube to substantiate their talent and ability, unfortunately this paints a somewhat distorted picture of what they actually did on a consistent basis giving them way too much credit than what they actually performed. I mean it brings me back to an earlier point about Riquelme, a player you claim to have been a great passer who always made dangerous passes, great technique and had a level of consistency but somehow seems to have gone under the radar with his poor ESM showings. Bottom line: I could care less how many Zidane videos you have claimed to have watched it doesn't enhance your opinion any more. You're the kind of guy if Zidane made a simple square pass and Riquelme did the exact same thing you would say that Riquelme's had more substance. As for you not reading the rest of my 'gibberish', I'm pretty sure you read my post in full. But of course it included Zidanes fine passing display against Man Utd, commentary from those United players, journalists, pundits and to reiterate my comment...Skimming back through the years I found it more of a challenge to place others in that elite list taking into consideration thing's like consistency, performing in the greatest club completion in the World, quality and strength of the opponent. Posted below were some of his more memorable performances at least with available footage, and again there may have been players with better executed passes, better dribbling sequences and maybe better goals. But if we had to condense the previous points including an array of passing, dexterity combined with an overall skill as well as having an uncanny ability to raise your game even in the midst of the great talent around you a very select few were up there with Zidane.
I have to disagree with you here, in terms of overall skill I feel Rui Costa and I'm talking about his Fiorentina days was the best of the bunch. To simply put it he was sublime at times, played against the best contemporaries and players in the world in a Golden generation for Serie A and was definitely one of the best playmakers of his generation. Unfortunately his fan base lacks the avid YouTube uploader ala el-torero with Riquelme. It sucks that some of the younger generation usually relate his performances with AC Milan, in my opinion a club that never really got his full potential. I'd take Iniesta over Riquelme too.
that's your choice, but in raw talent, Riquelme could do ALL things Rui and Iniesta did, PLUS he was a threat in scoring goals IN and OUTSIDE the box >>>> much better then bot Rui and Iniesta. Now let break down and give some points (just reference not absolute) Ball control: Riquelme 9/10 Iniesta 8.75/10 Rui 8.5/10 Dribbling: Riquleme 8.75 = Iniesta > Rui 8/10 Passing short: Riquelme 9/10 = Rui Costa > Iniesta 8.5/10 Passing long, and cross: Riquleme 9.25/10 > Rui 8.5 and Iniesta 8/10 Setpieces (FK, CK) Riquelme 8.75/10 > Rui 8.25 > Iniesta 8 Shooting Riquleme 8.75/10 > Iniesta 8/10 > Rui 7.5/10 ================================== In skiilset, Riquleme (no doubt for a so called NEW MARADONA) was on par with Zidane (but more dangerous inside box then Zidane) - the DOWNFALL of Riquleme was his picky style of play (required to be a go to guy or main playmaker in order to be at his best) and his SHORT peak in career ... that'sALL