I worked for two different liberal arts colleges in two different regions that figured out a way to vault themselves from regional into national ratings in the USN&WR ABC guide. They both did so the exact same way. They gave an honorary degree to John Leo or to some other hack who works at USN&WR. If you base anything, even a mere OPINION, on USN&WR college ratings, you're a confirmed knucklehead. They're pretty close to worthless.
Even still, if these rankings are skewed and I am a knucklehead, you have to try pretty hard to not make the top 125. It's a different story if you are ranked 75 and feel you are top 50, but you have to be pretty bad as suggested if you do not make the top 125. As DSOCC stated in regards to the soccer rankings, if you look at any number of academic rankings, you will find that they are basically the same: Ivy's in the top 15, UVA U Mich, U CAL, UNC being the top public schools. Now I understand you Dr. are from Appalachia, and I am sorry if you think I am putting down West Virginia, which I am not, I am merely stating that if you were to take a look at the good soccer schools and the good academic schools, WVU falls short. As for DSOCC, I do not care for college soccer news or soccer america, or even the god damn NSCAA because I think they are full of crap. But if he is asking what are the best soccer colleges in the USA, then you don't need someone's biased, egotistical list. All you have to say is ACC, Indiana, Penn State, SMU, St. John's, Creighton, UCLA, UCONN, St. Louis, because those are traditionally top 25 sides. If you want to throw in teams who have recently had a good amount of continued success, then you could add Notre Dame, UCSB, California, and New Mexico. Nowhere on a list of continually successful teams would I include West Virginia for having one good season, getting a first round bye, and dropping a match to UNCGreensboro. That is all I have to say, one good season and subpar academics. Prove me wrong next year....
His question isn't the Top 25 soccer schools with Lithuanian ties. How about you do a little reading...
I don't live in West Virginia, and don't give a shit about it. But all you have is one magazine's subjective, though heavily marketed, ratings system, plus a bunch of ignorant prejudices and stereotypes about West Virginia. All of which comes down to not much at all. Incidently, I've worked at colleges and universities in Illinois, Louisiana, Arizona, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island. I suspect you haven't. I've also been involved in accrediting procedures at colleges and universities in most of those states, plus Wisconsin, New York, and Ohio. Consequently, I suspect that I know how to "take a look at...good academic schools" in ways that you don't. As far as WVU's soccer, I don't care. But you don't know anything about how to assess a college's academics if you think USN&WR can tell you anything important.
Stereotypes? Prejudices? Considering that Appalachia includes the whole state of West Virginia, I have in no way made any generalizations other than to say that West Virginia is a part of Appalachia, and that you being from Appalachia may get offended by me bringing down WVU. Being from West Va. means you are from Appalachia, but I never said if you are from Appalachia, then you are West Virginian. I do not understand where your anger comes from? All I have said is that clearly West Virginia from the standpoint of a soccer and academic combination should not be considered in the elite or top 25. As for your hatred for US News and World, take that to another forum, I really don't care. My point is that the school's academics have to be pretty bad if you cannot make a top 125 appearance, no matter who makes it public or rates it. If you do not care for WVU soccer, why even join in on this conversation, which is clearly about WVU soccer. You seem to be more interested in USNWR, so take your gripes to their forum please, since you have tons of experience dealing with accreditation and the like, but are not interested in soccer. This site is called Big SOCCER...
I'm not angry at all. I'm laughing at someone talking about things of which they are completely ignorant. Well, let's see how their soccer program does over the next few seasons. you brought it up in this one. It shows you don't know what you're talking about. As does... Really? How many colleges and universities are there in the US? Do you have any idea? And how many people have experience with more than a few of them? It's more complicated than you can even imagine. I believe you're the one who made the initial comments about their academics. Again, then why'd you bring it up in the first place?
A) you don't care about WVU soccer B) you don't like USN&WR as you appropriately abbreviated the name
If you read post 15, which was 3 or 4 post before my initial one... FIRST... you will see someone else brought WVU academics into the scope THEN... DSOCC brought APR's into play FINALLY... I commented that WVU's academics are subpar Then you arrived into the convo.... Get your facts straight there doctor
I have this to say to Dr Wanker, and then I am through with this useless convo. The subject of this thread is top 25 American soccer colleges that should be considered by a foreigner wanting to attend school in the U.S. and play soccer. As Icius originally stated "I am looking for the Top soccer colleges in America in the 1st division. My son is 17 years old and he is at home in Lithuania and looking to start his college education in America, but also play soccer at the high level" Anytime you are considering what college to play at, two key criteria are the state of the soccer program and the quality of education which Icius makes mention to in his query. Playing soccer and taking class at a high level is tough trick, few schools provide a truly elite experience at both levels... My point has been and remains that to formulate a list of high-level soccer programs with top notch academics should not include West Virginia. WVU has had one recent year of soccer success only to fizz out during their first NCAA tourney match at home. Meanwhile, WVU does not come into discussions when talking about top universities, or even top public universities. I have no personal likes or dislikes towards WVU. I wish their coach the best of luck, I have heard he is a pretty solid person and I hope he develops a quality side for years. While you have fought academic rankings and bashed my arguments, I want to know what you are trying to get out of this Wanker? In not one of your posts have you stated what is an accurate way to assess academic quality of an institution, but have ripped USNWR. In not one of your posts have you stated why WVU should be considered by Icius for his son to attend and play soccer. So rather than claim stereotypes or tell me how skewed certain rankings are, why don't you provide some productive thoughts or ideas to this discussion. I am done with this conversation.
He asked for advice on this topic. He got lots of good advice. None of it from you, since you don't know what you're talking about. Dsocc already covered that just fine. No need to add to it. He knows what he's talking about. You don't. I find that hard to believe.
And for the unitiated, that list of US News' sub 125 slackers, with "pretty bad academics" also includes such notable underachievers as: DePaul University (BTW, the largest US Catholic School) St. Johns University (the 2nd largest US Catholic school) George Mason University Oregon State University Seton Hall University Temple University University of Massachusetts University of Rhode Island University of New Mexico
Yup - your statements, just like the basis for this thread, are kinda lacking. That's OK, 'cause this whole thread is lacking in the initial description of and subsequent consensus on the metrics or measures to be used to determine "top". No biggie... The USNWR list is not terrible - it's OK for a general commercial list. It's kinda the standard 30,000 foot view of things, and as always the devil is in the details. That list is precisely ordered, so right away that should be some cause for pause. And even though they publish their criteria, their approach (weightings, etc.) might not match yours nor mine. Use it as just one source, but recognize it for what it is and we all shouldn't get hung up on whether or not Junior's school is #87 or 127. That ordering seems ultimately a bit arbitrary, and there are really important things like "do they have a good program in your intended area of study, or do they even offer such courses" that just might trump their one USNWR number. Maybe if they just used something like "A", "B", "C", etc. it might help. A "C" school is still OK - it's "average". As far as WVU soccer - it's results for the past few years have gotten better than a "C" (final RPIs of 28 and 9). They had a couple of players get to MLS. They made the NCAA tournaments. And they're not NAIA...
Ummm..since you're clearly among the unitiated, I'll point out that on the list of the schools I posted above that you'd trash as not being of USNWR Top 125 caliber, and thus not qualified as a "top soccer college in America", is one St. John's University, in Jamaica, NY. Despite it's apparent lowly academic status (sic), there isn't a single person knowledgeable in collegiate soccer (and certainly none on this board) who would say that St. John's isn't an historic Top 25 program. That distinction also applies to Creighton University, which is in Omaha, Nebraska, and also a non USNWR Top 125 school. Both schools have been Top 25 D1 programs for years, by every known measure relevant to the sport, despite any reinvention of the adjective "Top" you'd choose to rationalize. Given your invective, however, I'll assume that you'd actually disqualify both SJU and Creighton as legitimate Top 25 programs, for the purposes of this discussion. If that's the case, I seriously suggest you troll your wares on another board, since you're not going to find much agreement here. A simple question then for all to see. Then we can move on. Do St. John's University and Creighton University qualify as being "Top 25 colleges" for the purpose of this discussion? A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice.
There are 2,474 four year colleges and universities in the U.S. so your claim that not being in the top 125 in a subjective ranking means a school is academically deficient is a pretty unreasonable argument. The top 125 schools represent the Top 5.0% of all colleges and universities. So yes these would be the academically elite schools in our current educational system but I don't think it really merits automatically assuming that any school not in that list as academically lacking. Personally I know very little about the quality of the WVU education as I do not go there and have never been there and am not arrogant enough (at least not this morning) to make claims without substantial factual backing. I have a large number of friends that attend the school and from my understanding it is not a cake walk by any means. I am hoping that this will put the entire argument to rest and maybe we can get back to trying to help this person help their son find the right institution. I think we will all agree that academics are a huge factor in choosing, but that was not the question posed. I think this individual would have been quiet capable to do the research on the schools after we provided a list of the "Top Soccer Colleges". So sorry Futbol, I would think you are in the minority here on this dispute and need to pick your battles better because you have little supporting evidence, and the evidence you did use, just got shot to sh*t.
Here's a thought. At this point, the original poster may have grown tired of the narcissistic and pointless bickering...at least, I would hope so. The point of this post was to help a father, unfamiliar with U.S. higher education and its attendant soccer programs, to find the best situation for his son. How does this mean-spirited nonsense accomplish that? Get over yourselves, folks.
Creighton and SJU... Top 25 Colleges = No Top 25 Soccer Colleges = Yes WVU Top 25 Colleges = No Top 25 Soccer Colleges = No Top 25 Soccer Colleges in 2006 = Yes Fair enough?
Furthermore if we look through the Top 125 and then pick out the Top soccer colleges we will be left with 10 schools. With some question marks on a few. It is hard to choose because are we talking historically or recently. I would assume recently since this kid isn't looking to go to school 10-15 years ago. So here is the list I came up with comprised of Top 125 academic schools which apparently are the only schools of merit in this country and then top programs over the past few years and one or two historically top programs. (I don't want to get in a debate with Tom on this one) UVA UNC Wake Forest UCSB Maryland Indiana St. Louis Duke Southern Methodist Clemson Potential other add ons: Stanford Notre Dame Penn State (I know, I know, I am a homer just trying to push my institution) And if you really want to harp on the WVU thing, lets look at the fact that their incoming freshman class is above the national average in the ACT and SAT scores and the average GPA is a 3.2! Wow what subpar standards for a school competing in the Northeast.
Dear Sir, Thank you for your consideration of BigSoccer as a potential forum for assisting in your son's choice of potential colleges to attend. The United States is blessed with a number of excellent academic institutions. Many of the top academic schools also have strong soccer traditions. It would assist posters' efforts to have some additional information, such as: 1) Your son's academic capabilities and interests; 2) His career interests; 3) His experience traveling or spending significant time away from home (if he is comfortable, great. If uncomfortable or inexperienced, homesickness can make college a difficult experience. Location near relatives or others from his homeland could be a plus); 4) His abilities as a player (this was already well-addressed in an earlier post, where a player's video resume can assist); 5) Financial limitations, if any (if he is an truly outstanding student AND player, scholarships are a possibility...if not, cost may factor more heavily into the choice). We look forward to hearing of your success.
St Louis University would love to entertain your son's aspirations as a student/athlete Top 100 University = Yes Top 25 Soccer University = Yes Winner of 10 National Championships. Historically recognized as the greatest US Soccer university website = http://www.slu.edu Soccer coach = Dan Donigan email = donigand@slu.edu soccer office phone number = (314) 977-3184
Someone came on and made some unfounded comments. He got called on it. And not just by me, but by some folks who know quite a bit about college soccer. Such is not an unusual event on an internet message board. Calling that poster on it, I believe, is something that could help the father "find the best situation for his son." Sorry if my posts struck you as mean spirited. Frankly, I don't care. I do care about higher education and about college soccer. The first is among my top five priorities in life, the second might or might not crack the top 125, I'm really not sure. But, if someone is going to spread misinformation, I'm going to do what I can to clarify what I can. If you feel like enlightening me as to how that might be narcissistic, I'd be interested in your opinion. If not, that's fine too. Nice letter in post 47, by the way. I would add one more item that would be helpful: how good is his son's English? Some universities are better at helping ESL (English as a Second Language) students than others, and if his English (which might actually be his fourth or fifth language if he's like the Lithuanians I knew at UIC), it would be good to go someplace that is used to helping smart kids who are being (temporarily) held back by their developing language skills.