Club motives are obvious. FIFA dates are your enemy if you manage a player from a non-Euro federation.
Germany can't qualify for the Olympics. They didn't make the UEFA U-21 Championships. Unless Chandler is a consideration for Euro 2012, which really, does anyone think he is above Lahm, and there are least 4 or 5 other guys at RB who are really good too. I suppose they could cap tie him in a Euro 2012 qualifier against Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan, but I don't think he is a Euro 2012 consideration. That said its going to be really disappointing if he says he's "tired" now, but then represents Germany in August. If he's going to make a switch, just say so, don't claim being tired.
This is true. What Euro manager would be happy to have one of their players training and playing matches for an entire month after the league ends?World Cup is one thing as it brings some recognition to the player and club. But Gold Cup? All a club gets from that is a tired player returning to his club when pre-season training starts without the benefit of proper rest. Is there selfishness on the part of the club? Of course, they pay the salary and have the most to lose. They see Timmy as an every match starter but if he comes back to the club fatigued with some knocks, he will be starting the new season in a hole and will not have the physical and mental reserve to go every match through a full BL1 season. He also has not had the benefit of a full pre-season with his club. Should Bradley force the issue? Not really since if Timmy says no, that's it. So why put yourself in the position of having a player turn down a call-up or putting a player in a bad spot with their club? BB needs to evaluate carefully, listen to the club, listen to the player, filter out the BS, hone in on what is real, think about what his long and short-term priorities are for the player and the team and make a decision. To me, this decision is one that focusses on the long-term rather than the short. Heck, if Bradley forced the issue, what does that say? That we can't win the GC without this player who has only donned a USMNT shirt for the first time in the last couple of months? A player that a year ago very few had any awareness? Why lay that pressure on Timmy when he isn't fully fit (at least likely not match fit). I don't believe it is a concern about Chandler joining Germany. Lascho posted earlier about the attitude in the DFB is that if you want to play for Germany, great. If you want to play for another country, good for you and no hard feelings, but your time to be considered for Germany has now passed. There are plenty of other players standing in line.
This. Germany does simply not cap just to cap-tie nowadays. However, if there is one position where Germany has not a deep pool of quality youngsters to chose from it's wing back (and to a degree center forward). I think it's not completely of the mark to imagine Chandler playing for Germany if he can keep up his performances and if he is open for a switch. But those are two big ifs, mind you. Personally, I believe he will be in the USMNT squad for WC 2014 instead.
They don't until they do, until the right player compels such. Everyone's a hustler nowadays including the elite teams. I'll believe Chandler is committed to the US when he suits up in a game that counts. Wouldn't be surprised if in the end he was just using us. Wouldn't be the first time a baller has done this... His being tired or whatever smacks of Subotic type ish.
Here's what it says: if I feel that a player is needed in a critical tournament, I expect that player to be committed to the call-up. If he's not, then his lack of committment will be noted and will potentially negatively impact future selections to our side. If you take a narrow view of this, it all makes perfect sense. But take a larger view - think of Clint Dempsey publicly pleading for rest at the end of the Fulham season so he could get balance his country vs. club committments (http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/lo...empsey-makes-fulham-rest-plea-82029-28598765/) Think of other vets like him - Landon, Timmy H., Boca - that have the same issue and that have never asked out of a major tournament. Now maybe they look at this kid and say "I'm sorry, are we now allowed to choose which tournaments which we want to attend -- without any fear of negative consequences down the line?" Listen, this happens. I believe Bojan Krkic (sp?) begged out of Euro 2008 for the Spanish team because he claimed that he was exhausted. And Aragones let him and no one, to my knowledge, cared or complained. Good chance that's what happens here. But Bradley should be careful about applying different sets of rules - particularly for guys that haven't earned that sort of *star* cred.
They didn't even do that with a certain player named Özil despite heavy interest from Turkey. But they still decided to let him play the U21 Euro and wait for him to declare for Germany instead of capping him quickly in the Euro Qualifying games against Liechtenstein or Wales in March 2009. I know it's becoming a trend to cap dual citizens as soon as possible, which is a very sad development but a simple consequence of the ridiculous FIFA rule changes one year ago, but it's still a taboo in Germany although they're losing players every year because of this policy. Timothy Chandler is not in Germany's plans. He might be good enough one day but certainly not for this Euro 2012. Besides, Germany's problem position is leftback. Lahm will stay on the RB position anyway. It's a simple club-country issue. There's no secret Germany plan, at least not from Germany's side. And I seriously doubt Chandler would give up a relatively save roster spot for a theoretical chance of playing for Germany one day...
You're probably right, and I'm sure Chandler knows this. I was concerned yesterday, but in the end, I'm about 90% sure you're right. I'm still VERY upset about this, however, and it has to do with Nuernberg's ability to cajole/muscle a player into turning down a call-up to a MAJOR competition for his national team (I know this is viewed as nothing but a nuisance in Germany, but for the USMNT, Chandler's national team at least up to now, this is the 2nd most important competition after the World Cup). As I'd said earlier, I don't mind if Nuernberg complains about us calling him up for every little thing, but this is not a little thing, this is crucial. And... it's against the rules. Technically it's Chandler making the decision, yes, but they're probably twisting his arm a little bit.
Löw's interest can be completely legitimate. If he tells Timmy to come to their training camp and then see how things pan out, it's not tying him up ... but, if I am Bob, I am dropping the guy from the considerations forever. Sez you. The Kicker says otherwise. Or, at least, they like him more than Riether, Träsch, Aogo, Beck and Fritz. And, if the guy is the second team right back after Lahm, I am sure he'll take it. Well, Schmelzer is going to try and claim that spot but, if I am the head coach, why would I not choose to play two top players at my disposal? If Schmelzer is out, why wouldn't I move Lahm back to his old side and replace the right back with someone of quality rather than keep Lahm on the right and select someone like Boateng, who doesn't have the speed to chase the wingers? With most coaches, what Chandler did would put a nail into his international career. A player doesn't decide when he feels like playing. His coach makes that determination. His national team coach.
Seriously, stop arguing with Kicker ratings. Seriously. And yet, it happens all around the world. Bob Bradley will probably know the importance of diplomacy in international football. Chandler will be fine. If he continues to play good football, he will be invited again sooner or later. He's very young, it was his first season in pro football. He wouldn't be the first player to be dropped from the team because he gets injured in the tournament or simply couldn't rest enough. Chandler is in a very important phase of his career and he needs to make the right decisions now. If the club and Chandler believe he might get physical problems after a long tournament which the US is likely to win, then he shouldn't go. He has many years of playing national team football ahead of him however, if he rests now and finishes another season as a starter. Because right now, he's still only a "talent". A player, who could be replaced.
OK, fine. I saw Riether play. I saw Boateng play. I saw Träsch play. Ditto for Aogo, Fritz and Beck. And Badstuber and Schmelzer. And Cherundolo too (who is in no danger of switching) If I were making a German lineup right now, I'd have Chandler on the right and Lahm on the left. Is that good enough? Granted, I'd also have Howedes and Westermann in the middle but hey ...
I'm with this. Granted, I don't think it's time for balls out panic, but I'm surprised that so many here are brushing this off as absolutely no big deal at all. Imagine Donovan saying, "no thanks, I'd rather rest than strive to beat Mexico in the Gold Cup." Or Agudelo turning down the roster spot because he is too young to be over worked. Or any other U.S. player for that matter. I just don't see how turning down an appearance in your team's regional championship is a good sign even if Chandler is not entertaining thoughts of playing for Germany.
Plus, smithfan is ignoring the subsequent equivocations by the US head coach. If Bobaloo said, "Tim is recovering from a series of injuries but has given me his word that he is an American national teamer for as long as we have him", it'd be one thing. But Bob made no such statements and instead hedged his bets. BTW, I am not blaming Bob for not keeping Timmay the same way I hold the grudge against Rongen for weaseling the whole Subotic affair. Bob is playing a weak hand ... weakly.
Because it's most likely not the player's own desires but his club's. It's not hard to imagine this conversation between Chandler and Hecking: "I know you've been called up for the Gold Cup in America but we don't think it would be good for you to go. You just had an excellent first season, and I would hate it if you lost your starting position because you came back to preseason training injured or exhausted. You understand what I'm telling you, Tim? It's for your own good." And it seems that pretty commonly in Germany in general, if you go against this advice, you find yourself benched and on the outs with your manager. Tim's obviously a fast-rising player, but he's not a superstar that can dictate terms to his coach yet. At this point in Germany he's merely a talented young player that wasn't rated not too long ago, who just played a good half-season of football, end of story. (Obviously, if some manager wanted to pull that shit with Lahm, say, Lahm could defy them and play anyway, then easily give them the finger, play it out in the press which would be sympathetic, demand to be transferred, and have his pick of clubs to choose from as a result. And the club and manager would have egg all over their face.) As for the holding out for Germany motives, I'm still agnostic on that, but the most reliable sources seem to say that that isn't what Chandler's motivation is. Then again, I can't be sure and won't be sure until I see him accept a call-up for a qualifier or the Olympics. But his primary motivation to obey his club's demands in this case makes perfect sense, whether or not he has any ulterior motives about Germany or not.
http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/die-deutsche-abwehr-ii/topic/ansicht_52_173493_seite104.html 104 pages dedicated to the German defense and possible candidates. 104 pages and you know how often the name Chandler was mentioned? Only once. And in this posting, he was refered to as a "Allerweltskicker". I don't even know how to translate this word properly, possibly something like "your average joe player". Of course, internet boards are not the German national team but it tells you something about Chandler's reputation if he isn't even in the plans there (and they basically mention every player who played 4-5 good games in a row and has a German passport...). It's completely unrealistic. Löw's nominations are actually very predictable and the fans usually know quite soon who could get his first cap and that's why I'm 100% sure that Chandler is not in his plans. No matter how good Kicker rates him.
Good point. Bob needs to focus more on keeping crazy fans who already hate him sane about a non-issue instead of worrying about the continental championship. You should write him a letter.
Not sure if it is the same smithfan, but a poster with the same handle in this transfermarkt thread notes that he/she finds it improbable but apparently the decision has something to do with the German national team http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/deut...i/topic/ansicht_6_692479_seite48.html#p857684 Ich halte das zwar für unwahrscheinlich, aber angeblich hat Timothy Chandler die Einladung zum Gold Cup (mit einem Einsatz festgespielt) auch deshalb abgelehnt, weil er sich mit seiner Wahl USA doch nicht sicher ist. Quote: Bradley initially claimed to reporters that his decision to leave Chandler off the roster was due to a “long season,” and “physical and mental reasons.” Yet, when pressed to further discuss why Chandler wasn’t included on the roster and whether or not the 21-year-old right back was considering playing for Germany, Bradley admitted that Chandler might not entirely be committed to playing for the United States. “The way how things are these days,” Bradley explained. “You don’t know for sure.” Still, Bradley sounded hopeful that Chandler would remain a member of the Stars and Stripes. “In our conversations, he has said that he is proud to play for the United States and hopefully that'll continue,” said Bradley. (Have these Bradley quotes been posted here? I just one of them in this Jack Bell article: http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/chandlers-gold-cup-absence-raises-concerns/ )
Donovan hasn't ever been in a comparable international situation to Chandler but if you wanted to compare to Donovan it would be more comparable to Donovan turning down a loan deal to Everton in January so that he could have an off-season to train with LA. To me its about akin to Brad Guzan turning down a chance at a Gold Cup invite to get married. Its definitely not as big of a deal as the ridiculous indignation on here would have you believe: - its a conspiracy - Bob Bradley is a liar and in on the conspiracy - Timmy Chandler is a liar, a traitor, and in on the conspiracy - Chandlers now a lock to play for Germany - Chandler just isn't American enough.
Yes, they've been posted. Those quotes aren't red flags to me. All it means is that Bob Bradley doesn't speak in absolutes and nor should he.