Time for a "Mass Shootings" Forum?

http://tinyurl.com/d5dnc5s

 

Thank you. This is part of why I hope smarter people than I can address the cause or at least find a way to help those who suffer from this disease.

The environmental triggers are something that need to be addressed as well, and not just for schizophrenogenic cases. We are well aware of the syndrome of people who had disturbing events in their lives affecting their actions, as well as rage related issues that stem from a breakup to finding a partner cheating. But what makes these individuals go on rampages like we have seen? I mean guns have been part of American culture since day one, and assault weapons and the like (allow me to include sub-machine guns like the Thompson here) have been available to the public in form or another since the 20's, in that time is there record of these rampages? Have they seen a sudden increase? Can we attribute these increases, if that is the case to any cause?

 

Thank you. This is part of why I hope smarter people than I can address the cause or at least find a way to help those who suffer from this disease.

The environmental triggers are something that need to be addressed as well, and not just for schizophrenogenic cases. We are well aware of the syndrome of people who had disturbing events in their lives affecting their actions, as well as rage related issues that stem from a breakup to finding a partner cheating. But what makes these individuals go on rampages like we have seen? I mean guns have been part of American culture since day one, and assault weapons and the like (allow me to include sub-machine guns like the Thompson here) have been available to the public in form or another since the 20's, in that time is there record of these rampages? Have they seen a sudden increase? Can we attribute these increases, if that is the case to any cause?

 

like you, I own guns.
I own a single action .22 revolver, a .22 double action revolver. a bolt action .22 rifle, and a bolt action 8 mm rifle.
like you, I'm not an NRA member, and I do not need the NRA to advocate or lobby for laxer gun control laws on my behalf.
I honestly haven't shot any of my guns in at least 5 years. I've never used any of them for anything other than target practice - and chasing a can - because it's just fun.
I don't rely on any of them for home protection. I don't even have ammo for any of them right now. they just sit in the closet.
if preventing tragedies like the one today meant I had to give them up, so be it.
of course, some people are a lot more attached to their guns than I am, and I think it's reasonable to let them keep some of them, and let them use the others in a controlled way. but they of course don't want to hear that.

 

This is just getting crazy.

NBC is now reporting that all the weapons were legally purchased and registered to the mother (aka the kindergarten teacher) of the shooter.

I don't think I've ever met a kindgergarten teacher that would seem remotely interested in guns.

 

There's an interesting thing you can do here. Take the second table, the rate of gun ownership, and multiply it by 1000 to get the guns-per-100,000 citizens. The first table gives you the gun homicides per 100,000 citizen. Divide your new, renormalized second table into the first table to get the gun homicides-per-gun.

When you do that, you get:

Gun homicides per 1,000,000 guns:

USA: 33.6
Switzerland: 16.8
Italy: 59.7
Canada: 16.6
Holland: 84.6
Germany: 6.27
Australia: 9.33
UK: 11.3
France: 1.92
Norway: 1.60
South Korea: 36.4

If absolutely nothing mattered other than the prevalence of guns (a position nobody believes, I know, but I'm just mentioning it to clarify what this table means), then you'd expect all these numbers to be pretty much the same. The table suggests that, if you used the U.S. as a standard, France and Norway have many fewer homicides than you'd expect given number of guns around, while Holland (!) and Italy have many more. Italy I'm not too surprised at; but I'm awfully surprised at Holland. Small number statistics would have an impact here, but not a huge one.

I'm not sure there's much content here: for one thing, it's quite common for someone to own more than one gun; they may have multiple guns, but they're still one gun owner and thus one agent of action, so I'm not sure putting "# of guns" in the denominator really means very much. I was just curious.

 

I would be very worried if you didn't feel the way you do today. How can anyone with a shred of humanity in them not be overwhelmed with feeligns of despair and sadness for the families of those who lost innocent children, friends, brothers, sisters, or parents today.

 

It goes even deeper if you've ever worked in an elementary school building. Elementary teachers have such a connection with their (really, any other classrooms) kids.

My wife is numbing herself on Pinot Grigio avoiding all media at the moment.

 

they really do. my little guy is in preschool and at that age, teachers are still allowed to touch (e.g. hug, pat, hold hands, etc.) of their students. so the emotional bond teachers form with younger age kids is very much stronger than middle or high school.

 

This will knock HSBC right off the news. Just saying.

 

I'm guessing she bought them for her troubled son, as you have to be 21 in Connecticut to buy a handgun. Terrible idea. Reminds me of the Kip Kinkel case. His parents were High School teachers who thought it was a good idea to buy their child the weapons he eventually murdered them with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Kinkel

 

Would you really prefer that the perpetrators of these atrocities be better trained?

 

Not sure what you mean? By education I am talking about requiring classes on safety and teaching and reinforcing the understanding of what it is they are trying to purchase.

Are you opposed to sex Ed because it may lead to people having sex? If someone wants to own a gun they should be educated on its use and be clear that it isn't a toy and that owning one requires understanding and great responsibility.

 

I'm growing weary of this argument that gun regulations/bans are pointless because people who are determined to kill will obtain guns anyway. You know who wasn't determined to kill? The teenager who murdered a friend of mine. He just thought it would be fun and badass to take his grandfather's gun and go hang out with his friends and pretend to be a gangster. Now he is in prison for life, and my friend is dead. If there had been no (legal) gun, there would have been no murder. How many similar incidents could be prevented if there were simply no gun in the equation? Way, way too many.

 

Here's what posted in Facebook about Huckabee's comments:

"I think Mike is confusing the individual with the institution. Too bad, but it seems like most Christians these days are more concerned with keeping God in public institutions and public places, and forcing their belief system on others via edict, than they are about keeping God in their own lives and letting the love of God shine through their own words and actions. The former, admittedly, is much easier than the later. I think Jesus would call us hypocrites and Pharisees, brood of vipers. And tell us to first make God Lord of our own lives, before we try to make him Lord of someone else's - or Lord of public institutions. God is more interested in us rendering to God the things that are God's than he is in us rendering to Caesar the things that are Caesar's.
I might be wrong, but I don't think God is interested in being Lord of our public schools or our Government. He wants to be Lord of our lives. God is not interested in his presence in a public building in a statue or a memorial. He wants his presence in public places through the people who follow and obey him, and therefore stand out from the crowd."

 

I am not convinced this is true. I think there are some very sick, disturbed psychopaths who are incapable of living any life without endangering others or themselves.

 

If that is the case, they ought to be institutionalized (for lack of a better term).

 

I dunno...I just took your post as meaning that everyone should be educated more about handling guns. This would also include the bad guys/girls also.....no?

Anyways, like most everyone, I've been having a difficult time staying focused today. I text'd both my Sons this morning and asked them to give my 4 Elementary School Grandkids an extra hug from me.

 

That's because you were normal

 

Not sure if this has been posted here before. It's a publication by the FBI entitled "The School Shooter - A Threat Assessment Perspective".
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/school-shooter

It focuses on four indicators -Personality of the Student, Family Dynamics, School Dynamics and Social Dynamics. It's an interesting read IMO.

 

It's starts with childhood. In the US, we're working with the same genes that most other countries are working with, yet we have huge issues with violence and anti-social behavior. Thus it's logical to assume that there is some societal influence that's driving predisposed individuals towards psychopathy.

I'm a firm believer that competition is the driving factor. Increased competitiveness across societies corresponds with higher crime rates and increased anti-social behavior. This has been well documented and is a popular subject of study among some psychologists.

The US has a documented harsh competitiveness. We compete with our friends and family to have the most expensive material goods. We compete with our classmates to have the highest paying jobs out of school. It certainly seems possible based on initial research that this "rat race" is literally driving predisposed people insane.

 

No. Not true.

On the other hand, the rate of schizophrenia is fairly consistent around the world. Our schizophrenics tend to kill with guns because they are available. Most schizophrenics dont care about things like "competition". That stuff bothers people with normal though processes.