I've never watched a VWFC home game on TV before, but that Portland crowd - especially the Timbers Army end - sounded WAY louder that the crowds at tEmpire. Hopefully once we get under the cranes at the "new and improved" BC Place we can manage that level of noise.
The SS have been around since '99, TA since 2001* I think rather than time, we need more support from HO. * according to wikipedia.org
Their growth is largely due to the ability and support they've received from the FO, and their stadium...our voices were lost to the lack of backing and roof at Swangard, and could never really attract people from throughout the Stadium... that's my story that I'm sticking to anyways... They set a high standard...and most of them are good people too!
That is correct info. When the Southsiders were formed there wasn't a Timbers team, they were re-formed in 2001, hence the two year head start for the Southsiders.
Having lived in Oregon, and other states as well, I think I can say - without a doubt - that the combination of hipsterism (liking fringe things), general Oregonianness (they are known as being odd), the more prominent place soccer has in the PNW, and less major league competition are the perfect combination for something like the Timbers Army. Yes, their FO has fostered it (just as ours has attempted to squelch it), but a city like Portland was always going to be "better" at supporter culture. The real mystery to me is why Seattle has done as well as it has it in the stands. Portland's support may be more rabid, and Euro-like, but Seattle does pretty damn good there too.
could it be that the TA have a team worth cheering for?? Our team, the Caps, are going nowhere but down... and its going to get worse before it gets better as i said it would, much to my major disappointment at least you can watch the portland team and usually expect a competitve game with the potential for some points- now that's something to cheer about for an expansion franchise
You hit the nail on the head. I was a regular on their discussion boards at the start and watched how they grew. Lot's of young college age supporters who might not necessarily have followed the sport in the past started joining based on the partying and "hip" aspect of the group. It was a group that people out on the fringe could join and be a part of. I disagree that soccer is more prominent in the PNW. Vancouver always had more support in the top leagues in the past, I still say that soccer is more prominent here in Vancouver than in Portland. I also disagree with the less major league competition comment. We have the Lions and Canucks, they have College football (bigger crowds than the Lions) and NBA basketball. The Whitecaps FO is a big reason for what the Southsiders have ended up being.....plus (and this is just my opinion) the Southsiders have just become a corporation and less of a fun supporters group. I also have to add the TA at times are a very friendly group of people. I recall their first visit to Swangard way back when. They sought me out in the southside and brought me a beer. Which is always good, unless they spat in it.
When I said "PNW" I meant Vancouver too, my point being that Portland had a good shot at having good support compared to other American markets (and I would include Vancouver in that too). When I said major league, same thing: Portland (Blazers, UofO football) and Vancouver (Canucks, Lions) have less competition for the sports dollar than other similar sized cities like Kansas City (Chiefs, Royals, UK football and basketball) and Denver (Avs, Nuggets, Rockies, Broncos, Colorado football), so I expect Portland and Vancouver to have an easier time breaking in. So it's a combo of all those factors together that I think propelled the success of the Timbers. But yeah, the mass amounts of singing and falg waving is the hipsters and their ilk (all you have to do is look at the faces in the crowd. They have a LOT more college-aged, pageanted folk.
It can't be overstated how important it is to have your team playing downtown near pubs and bars. You need to have places to congregate and socialize before and after the matches for supporters culture to really take root and grow. The Timbers Army are excellent proof of this. The Timbers have played in the downtown core since day one, drew excellent, passionate crowds, and the TA quickly became part of the spectacle. The Whitecaps haven't played a season downtown since 1984, banished to the burbs with nary a watering hole in sight. The team has fought for relevance and justification, as has its supporters. Moving into East Vancouver this season has been helpful. Southsiders have jumped from 100 paid members at the end of 2010 to just under 700 now. Our ability to meet n greet at Oscar's and Doolin's has been a very important part of that growth. When we actually play a full season downtown, right in the entertainment district, I think we will see additional growth over the next few seasons.
Seattle has a crapload of hipsters as well. Certainly not to the level that Portland does and we tend to be more on the nerdier end of the hipster range, but it's certainly quite prevelant here. Also with the Sounders basically living incognito down in the lower divisions their return to top flight soccer happened to coincide with a lot of people that grew up with the NASL team reaching the age where they have have disposable income and are feeling nostalgic for things they grew up with. Also, the MLS organization has quite literally done everything right up to this point. Even when they "screwed up" and did not include the Sounders in their "Name the Team" poll, it generated a lot of free press for the team and when they ultimately included the "Fill in the blank" option it won them a lot of good will because they lived up to the "Democracy in Sports" BS that they were pushing. BTW, the reason why I included the quotes around screwed up is because I'm still convinced they did it on purpose. The Sounders were using Wexley School for Girls for their marketing at the time and pulling that kind of stunt is right up Wexley's alley.
THis may very well be your biggest issue. There was nothing around Swangard and only one pub within walking distance of Empire. Downtown you will have dozens of places for people go to, eat, drink, party, etc..... things may really catch on for you next season (a winning team will bloody well help too!). I have one question for you though. You have almost 700 paid members. To be honest, there is no way there is more than a couple hundred singing and chanting at the stadium on game day. Where is everyone else? Is it simply the fact you are scattered throughout the building?
Many of the 700 live in places outside of Vancouver, and don't go to every game. The Southsiders have Victoria, and interior chapters. The main reason is the pricing structure presented by the club. Originally the southside tickets were over $500 while the cheapest seasons were $319. The FO said this was because of a "precieved value" of the supporters section. It was really just gouging their most loyal customers. As a result, many southsiders couldn't afford the prices membership is spread out across the south end. Members are currently working on consolidating to one section, and progress is being made. It is difficult to create a fan group when the sections are poorly advertised, and fills up with prawn sandwichers who want to sit on their hands for the entire game, and hate people standing in front of them.
I'm in 220 and I always get "I can't see!" or "sit down!" when I stand up for an exciting moment... I'd probably be removed by security if I stood for the whole game.
In addition to the pricing issue you guys have, one huge advantage Timbers Army have over the other PNW SGs is that they actually control the tickets to their section. That's the main reason why the numbers in the ECS area hasn't increased as much since our 1st year. It's true that the south end is General Admittance, but the Sounders have a 95% season ticket renewal rate so far and that's not a lot of turn over for ECS members to get into that area.
Disclaimer: I'm a 107ist member but am not by any stretch of the imagination someone with inside knowledge. Minor quibble, but neither the TA nor the 107ist "controls" the tickets in the TA section (if I understand what you mean by control.). I purchased my three TA tickets directly from the team, just as I would have if I'd purchased seats in the fancy-pants eastside section. The 107ist did a lot of marketing for the TA tickets and, as I understand it, negotiated a cut of the proceeds from TA ticket sales in return. The only tickets the 107ist "controls" are the away tickets for Cascadia matches. Per the agreement between the teams (at least as I understand it), those tickets are supposed to go to the supporters; fortunately for us, the Portland FO actually followed through on that commitment. Consequently, I had a great time in Seattle, and expect the same in Vancouver.
I was under the impression you had to be a 107ist to get tickets in that area, but it certainly would not be the first time that I was wrong.
Definitely not true, I joined the 107ist, but none of the other folks I sit with did. As for reasons why the TA is as healthy as it is, I think most of the previous explanations are spot on. There's definitely a counter-culture/hipster element to TA membership that can't be ignored, something that Portland and Seattle both have tons of. I suspect the FO's appreciation of the TA is the biggest reason why they've grown to the size they are now. Whether it's a recognition that the TA represents the "Keep Portland Weird" vibe of the city or some other reason, the FO under Paulson's ownership has seen the TA as a resource and not as a potential problem, and that's been an overall positive for the Timbers as a whole.
From what I have seen of the new version of the Southsiders, it's full of young conservatives, I don't know what the front office is afraid of!
Must Echo this...I travel a lot for work and always try to plan around an MLS game if possible. I have been to many stadiums and definately being in an area with more to do before/after is essential.
