Throw to head, USB or VC?

This a good clip for hypothetical discussion, but there is no way that from this distance one can tell whether the throw was even headed toward a teammate, much less the demeanor of the thrower, where she was looking, was the ball wet, or anything that had happened in this match which would indicate possible motives for violent contact. My guess, from the way the thrower ran onto the field, was that the second throw was intentially thrown at the opponent in order to collect the rebounding ball.

 

I'll buy that on the first throw, not the second.

And? It was at best thrown recklessly at the opponent's face -- that's still striking and a caution. I'm with those that say this is excessive force: a full force throw at the face of the opponent -- and right after one that could have been called. I agree with red on this.

 

And nothing. Just making a guess about what happened.

 

Sorry -- I thought you were implying that meant it was OK.

 

Body language of teams mean nothing here?

 

Rufusabc - what are you seeing in this? You've mentioned "body language of teams" a couple of times as a question - I ask that you turn that around and provide your interpretation - I would like to see if there is something you are seeing / interpreting that I am missing on this. Thanks.

 

I can't fully tell from the video, but it looks like there is a lot less than 2 meters between the thrower and the opponent on the first throw. The AR should be stepping in there to tell the opponent to move back. Do this and you don't have to worry about the second throw. Or if you do then you know its deliberate.

 

Throw in distance requirements are just like a free kick. If the thrower is willing to take the throw with the opponent within the required distance you let them. Step in only if you are needed.

I am with most people here, the first one might have been an accident but the second I can't let slide, VC.

 

There is almost no reaction from either team on either throw. Doesn't that tell you something?

 

No, because there are some reactions as I see them. They are not over the top and crazy but that doesn't mean they have to be. I see the blue players going to their teammates aide, a white player putting her arms on her head, possibly exhaustion or possibly in frustration at her teammate, who knows? With as few players as are in the video it really doesn't matter how they reacted.

There was a video on here a while back that we debated where a player was kicked in the face, almost assuredly an accident but none of the other players reacted hostile, only concerned. Didn't change the fact that a red card was coming.

Just to put a little perspective, if we are going to ask why they didn't "react" for the throw, are we going to ask why they didn't "react" for the card either?

 

Well, I guess we will just disagree then. It's always harder to judge these things when we see them without the context of the full game. I posted about Suarez and the Newcastle tackle the other day, but I had seen the whole game and knew what the match temp was and what had transpired previously. That's what I mean. Again, no one goes berserk. I'm saying that if there was something in the throw, someone would have approached the thrower from the other team. That's all. It must have been a real calm match up until that point.

 

the girl that was struck reacted, she went down, ref stopped the clock to attend to her. I can agree with you that the thrower might have intended to throw the ball off the player to gain possession however the result of her attempt was a very forceful throw directly into the opponents face, maybe thats why ref went yellow instead of red.

I don't pretend to judge intent even when I am there so can't say watching a short clip, thats why I said looks very red to me from what I see on the clip.

 

Perhaps what we are seeing in the video is retaliation from earlier in the match or from another match. Given the limited information provided, it does seem to come out of the blue.

 

This is a college game and the NCAA rules do not include that 2 yards on throw-ins thing.

VC. I'm sorry but TWO times???? Even if you think the player didn't do this with malice aforethought, that's the way this is going to be seen by the other 20 players on the field. You don't call this and the game goes WHOOSH!!!!! Revenge will be exacted and probably not by the vic. I think you need to give the red for the thrower's own protection.

 

From the holy scripture, page 46:

Except for a handling offense, it is not necessary for the player’s action to be considered “deliberate” in the sense that the player intentionally set out to kick, push, trip, hold or otherwise foul the opponent. If that were so, the referee would have to be capable of reading a player's mind. Under Law 12, the referee makes a decision based upon what he or she sees a player actually do—the result of the player’s action—not upon what might be in the player's mind.

Emphasis is the ATR's, not mine.

It doesn't matter if the act was deliberate. What you see the player actually do, is throw the ball at an opponent's head, then take a couple steps back, and throw the ball even harder at the same player's head. Regardless of what might be in the player's mind, you need to apply the laws correctly.

 

100% agree. The whole thing could possibly have been prevented had the center given some indication after the first one (if he wasn't going to take action yet), that it better not "coincidentally" happen again.

 

Some people (like me) are just not that good at throwing the ball. I have more than once in my soccer playing career tried to thread the needle on a throw in and completely accidentally thrown it in to someones face. I never did it twice in a row, but it's something that I can see as possible.

There's no way for us to know without the context of the game if this is a situation where there was likely to be VC.

 

I know someone that got a yellow card in a game I was at for throwing the ball at an opponent back. It wasn't malicious at all! The opponent wasn't paying attention and he preformed a good but soft throw at the opponent to regain possession! The ref gave him a yellow but I'm still not sure what you would mark down as the reason! USB? Attempting to strike? What would you guys write down on your cards.

 

Nothing. That's just plain wrong.

From the I&G:

See also SoCal's quote from ATR 15.8, upthread. (Well, heck, also see his quote of this same language from the I&G, also upthread.)

[/redundant]

 

The problem I have with the FIRST throw is that's in no way, shape or form directed to a teammate or to where a teammate can be anticipated.....its being thrown out of touch if the defenders head were not in the way. That's a warning sign to me.

Caution for the first one, definite VC for the second.

 

There's a player from her team both times right in front of her.

 

Yes, and the throw is aimed nowhere near her teammate or where the teammate can reasonably be anticipated. Look at the pace of the first throw. Does the speed of THAT throw look like a throw intended for a teammate a few yards away? Not a chance....

 

Then why didnt he send her off for the first one?

 

Because he f#$%@d up and didn't see it for what it was....