Throw-In: How Close to Touch?

Discussion in 'Referee' started by CDM76, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. CDM76

    CDM76 Member+

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    So I'm reffing in the local old men behaving badly league this weekend when my AR lifts his flag and announces he's awarding the throw to the other team because the thrower was too far from the touch line.

    I overrule (assuming he's confused about a defender being within 2 meters of the thrower) and allow the throw to be retaken by the original team.

    At half, AR assures me that in 2010 there was a FIFA ruling that throwing from more than 2 yards off the touchline was unsporting. The throw is to be awarded to the opposing team. If a team persists in throwing from more than 2 yds off the line a caution can be issued.

    Anyone able to clarify this for me? I've never seen anything like this in the Law or ATR.
    soccersubjectively repped this.


  2. Cobras7

    Cobras7 Member

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    I have never heard of this but it sounds like he was probably confused with some other law...I'd love to know if that's actually a LOTG or not. IMO it seems a bit ridiculous to be cautioned for that!
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    ATR is clear that it is withing 1 yard of the throw-in:

    The rationale is not that it is unsporting to be further back, but that you need to take the throw-in from where it went out. (And when applying this, trifiling is probably the most important word to be thinking about.)
    While I suppose PI could theoretically be applied to persisently infringing Law 15. anyone giving that more than a moment's thought has completely lost the forest for the trees . . .
    CDM76 repped this.
  4. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

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    oh boy.....wow. How about you tell him that a throw in is a method to restart the game, and YOU have prevented the restart. Jeez. How was he on staying with the 2LD?


  5. CDM76

    CDM76 Member+

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    Thanks.

    Can't remember how many times I've read that and never seen the "back from". Just mentally skip straight from the "approximately one yard" to 15.2.

    Typically I give about a 3 yd grace on where the ball is thrown (maybe 5 in the defensive half of the field) and I've never worried about the distance back from the touchline.

    How do the rest of ya'll do this?
  6. Paper.St.Soap.Co

    Paper.St.Soap.Co Member+

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    We had this discussion not too long ago but my approach is that it depends on the impact to the play. If you gain an unfair advantage by being three yards back, I'm going to insert myself into the match. If it's trifling, let's get on with it. Usually you can be blowing the whistle to correct the position of the TI before/as they take it and avoid giving it to the other team. Fairness, in my eyes.
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  7. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    Here in the real world, if a player is getting ready to throw from an inappropriate spot, I tweet and tell him.

    In the defensive half, trifling expands; neat the attacking PA, it shrinks closer to a yard or two.
  8. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member

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    There was a field that used to actually give an advantage to the team if the took the throw too far back. This was due to the raised track around the field. It gave them about a 3 or 4 ft height advantage on the throw.
  9. CDM76

    CDM76 Member+

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    Seldom trailed play by more than 30 yds.
  10. gosellit

    gosellit BigSoccer Supporter

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    The complex our local Hispanic League plays is surrounded by woods. There have been times when throw ins have originated in the woods. The ball comes flying out of the woods onto the field and we play.
    joe-soccer repped this.
  11. campbed

    campbed Member

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    Just to play devils advocate and not let you off that easy for overruling/supporting your AR:

    Were they aware of your typical tolerance mentioned above?
    What were your instructions on TI to them in your pre-game?
    Was your restart correct?
  12. CDM76

    CDM76 Member+

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    I'm happy to take my lumps here.

    Pregame was pretty sketchy due to a scramble to find a club linesman (no second AR was scheduled and the pool was pretty shallow due to two tournaments in the area). Instructions to the single AR for throw-ins were along the lines of "your call but unless it's a two-footed bunny hop let's just get the ball in play".

    I don't think I've ever said anything about distance from where the ball left play on a throw as part of my pregame. As mentioned earlier, if I'm in the center I'll relocate a thrower before the ball ever leaves their hand if I think they're crossing Ken Aston's "let them cheat but don't let them steal" line.

    As an AR, if players have had to chase the ball, I'll usually point to where the ball left play with an open hand palm up gesture (similar to indicating a goal kick as referee).

    The throw itself (other than being from about 7' behind the touchline) was well within 1 yd up/down touch of where the ball left play and perfectly executed.

    The restart was to allow the team that was denied the throw to retake it. I didn't blow. He yelled out and stopped play (after raising his flag which I ignored). Opposing player picked the ball up and carried it to touch to take the throw. I suppose it should be treated as an inadvertent whistle so drop ball. Awarding a DFK for handling seemed excessively harsh for responding to the AR's announcement of an inappropriate throw.

    BTW, this same AR called for a corner on a play that there was no apparent contact by the defender with the ball. Lots of protest from the players but they settled down pretty quickly because I supported the AR. At half, he told me he awarded the corner rather than flag for a PK (I saw the contact. Good solid charge. Nothing there. Wouldn't have blown if he'd flagged it a foul.).
  13. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    This makes my brain hurt . . .
  14. Cobras7

    Cobras7 Member

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    When i first read this thread, i thought he meant that he ran toward the line from too far back! Not that he was throwing from the wring place but because he wasn't close enough to the FOP when he threw the ball! *facepalm*
    Could you see that there was no contact by the defender? If so why wouldn't you signal a GK and wave off the corner. Plus this sounds like he needs to re-read the LOTG. You aren't supposed to make a wrong call instead of calling something else or to make up for a different call!
  15. CDM76

    CDM76 Member+

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    This was precisely his reason for turning the throw around. The player throwing was too far from the touch (not up or down the line just not within 1 m/y of the touch line).

    It was in his quadrant about a yard or so in the PA. I heard nothing and didn't see the ball change course but his angle was perfect and it was possible it was touched by the defender. I called out "Deflection off defense?". He continued to point to the corner flag so I took that as an affirmation.
  16. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member

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    Devil's advocate situation. I had a game where the player (u16B) had been doing flip throws all game so they were set up 5+ yards from the field. The thrower then decided to throw to the wide open teammate a few yards onto the field.

    It doesn't meet the requirement for close enough to the field but in reality is it deception or would it be considered trifling? The 5 we had watching said that she didn't see any problem with it. Just get it back in play.
  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    My bias against flip-throws [which, yes, I know are legal] might make me see this as more than trifling, as it is taking advantage of what the opponents are expecting by surprising them with a throw from an improper place. Dunno if I'd call it. Certainly wouldn't fault anyone who called it or who ignored it.
  18. dtid

    dtid Member

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  19. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member

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  20. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    I'm in the "this is trifling" camp, and an AR that calls that merits a brief, frank discussion about what's important in a match.

    I have never called this, and have seen this done (throw ins farther back from touch) mostly to get around the "slow motion" throw that takes place when you're trying to throw in to a teammate 3 feet from you and hit their feet.

    I'll allow the throw from 5 feet off touch if it stifles the chorus of "that had to be a foul throw! C'mon ref!"
  21. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

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    How far will you allow? Behind the bench? Behind the opposing team's bench? The other side of the track? The fence?
  22. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    Like Potter Stewart, I know a bad throw-in spot when I see it. :)
    SccrDon and Bubba Atlanta repped this.
  23. Errol V

    Errol V Member

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    This is an interesting thought experiment (sorry - been reading Einstein lately). I think I agree, but I wouldn't state the same way. How does this sound?

    Whether or not the opponents are expecting him to throw it to that particular teammate is immaterial. Deception is a useful and fair tactic in soccer. For any throw taken in the proper position up on and down the touch line, the question is should the opponents be expecting the throw to be taken at that particular point in time. Regardless of what the player had been doing on previous throws, to expect opponents to be prepared to defend when a player takes a throw from 5 years outside the pitch is not reasonable. If the opponents don't appear to be ready to defend any tactic I am blowing the whistle here. Otherwise, play continues.
  24. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    sorry but is it 5 years prior or in the future?
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  25. dtid

    dtid Member

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    Maybe I was being too vague, so let's try this again - player throws ball in at opponent's head and hits her, TWICE. This is a yellow card?

    If this would better be in its own thread, mods, I leave it in your capable hands.

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