This is what I think is wrong.

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by AguiluchoMerengue, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. cdskou

    cdskou Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    So where do the players come from genius?


  2. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Country:
    United States
    Reading comprehension is not your strong suit. The myth is that there are these great teams made entirely of players brought up by that club. The overwhelming majority of players produced by top club academies fail to make the grade and play at a lower level. How many homegrown players does Chelsea have? Manchester United? Borussia Dortmund? Real Madrid?
  3. cdskou

    cdskou Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    Stop trying to write as if you played the game. All the clubs that you mentioned above , what club teams did they start there careers with ?Home grown not home grown, where did they start there first team careers?
  4. cdskou

    cdskou Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    Yes Sir, we our waiting.


  5. StyleAndRhythm

    StyleAndRhythm Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Cruzeiro Belo Horizonte
    Man I just don't get why you guys knock the player development so much. No teams gona turn out a full starting 11, but when the BEST academies only spend 2 million dollars a year, I'm sure they can squeeze some money somewhere to invest in youth development.
  6. cdskou

    cdskou Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    I was on the Chelsea sight a few minutes ago. It was really interesting to read in black and white where Chelsea players started there first team careers. In the lower divisions.
  7. cdskou

    cdskou Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    It is the American way, too knock soccer, when they do not know to much about the subject.
    In this case though it is a little different, these posters actually like soccer. So go figure.
  8. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Country:
    United States
    There's nothing stopping lower division teams from developing players here. However, you completely missed my point. Chelsea BOUGHT almost all of those players. How many of them came up through the Chelsea youth system? As it stands now, it's cheaper for MLS to buy players. There's not enough money around to develop players. Chelsea has chosen to buy players instead of developing through their own youth system.

    The US needs to do a better job at developing talent. Academies shouldn't cost players thousands of dollars per year. However, there isn't enough money to fully invest in the youth system. Are you going to pony up the cash?
  9. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Country:
    United States
    Where's the money going to come from? Where? Who is going to pay the extra money? Are you going to cut front office staff to find extra money?

    I'm not knocking the player development, I'm pointing out the realities.
    bigredfutbol and ejgrownarseman repped this.
  10. ejgrownarseman

    ejgrownarseman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    No one is knocking it. Just bringing up the realities of the situation, which are always conveniently ignored in these discussions.
  11. StyleAndRhythm

    StyleAndRhythm Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Cruzeiro Belo Horizonte
    I'm talking about MLS teams. STRICTLY. No way a USL or NASL team would be able to afford this.
    Step up the marketing and make 2 Million a year to support the program. This isn't u-littles. This is U17 and U19. You'll be grooming your future. Cover the reasonable fee of running two teams that will feed 1.5 starters every other year. I think if they do start this, the professionalization of soccer will create professionals instead of college delaying their development.
  12. ejgrownarseman

    ejgrownarseman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    Again...who or what will pay for it? Specifically.

    Most MLS teams don't have a couple million extra lying around. So should they raise ticket prices (decreasing attendance most likely)? Cut player salaries? What?

    Money is real. Some people tend to forget that.
    CCSUltra repped this.
  13. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Country:
    United States
    This. Teams just don't have money lying around.
  14. StyleAndRhythm

    StyleAndRhythm Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Cruzeiro Belo Horizonte
    Pull some more marketing thing. spin it as the next best thing and get some sponsors in there. Make it seem like soccer is on the cutting edge and get some one to pay some cash to call it "Portland Timber's youth Academy presented by Miller Light"
  15. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Country:
    United States
    Because it's just THAT easy to get multi-million dollar sponsorships.
  16. ejgrownarseman

    ejgrownarseman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    But what's in it for Miller Lite (or whoever)?
  17. StyleAndRhythm

    StyleAndRhythm Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Cruzeiro Belo Horizonte
    I mean this as something for when the economy gets better, so more money is made through the real team so they can re invest in their product.

    Plus a franchise tag is 750 mil right now. Don't cut yourself short on 2 Mil
  18. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Country:
    United States
    You're off by about $650mil.
  19. StyleAndRhythm

    StyleAndRhythm Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Cruzeiro Belo Horizonte
    Ment to type 150 but either way a 2 Mil investment that you make back the 5th year.

    If the woeful Toronto FC can do it i'm sure a couple of teams could find the cash
  20. Cosmo_Kid

    Cosmo_Kid Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    the money comes from transfer fees you get for selling players.

    Just look at what Brazil does. They develop the players, sell them to Europe, then put the money back into development.
  21. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    I have some serious doubts about whether clubs will make the money back in 5 years. First of all, it's $2 million per year, not $2 million one-time. While it's true that most MLS teams have already spent the startup costs, you have to earn that $2 million year after year after year. There aren't that many million-dollar players. Transfermarkt values only 64 players in all of MLS at over $1 million. That's about 3 per team. Exactly one of those players (Juan Agudelo) started his career as a homegrown player. Seeing as a club academy typically graduates only 1-2 players a year to the first team, only a handful of academies can actually churn out $2 million in transfer fees per year.

    I even have serious doubts about whether academies are really driving club profits beyond a few big clubs, even in places like Brazil and the Netherlands. The only way to get consistent profits from an academy is scale. Clubs like Ajax, and probably all the other big clubs in feeder leagues, accomplish that by buying up 16-18 year old players from other clubs' academies. (This explains the number of "homegrown" players in Ajax's first team who only spent a year or two in the Ajax academy.) All the other clubs get a trickle of money, lose money most years, and hope for a big transfer fee every 5-10 years.
  22. Cosmo_Kid

    Cosmo_Kid Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    well with Brazil there is ample proof that shows that transfers are what funds their talent factory. All you have to do is look at how many players Brazil transfers to other leagues. Lucas Maura transferred to PSG for 45 mil. Every year they seem to have a big transfer. Plus you add up all the 10 mil and 5 mil transfers and that's a lot of $$ going back into the clubs. The attendance at Brazilian games isn't very good so they aren't making their money at the gate.

    I'm not sure how much it costs to run an MLS academy. But you're probably right that they aren't a money maker at the moment. It's going to take several years before MLS clubs start getting some decent return.
  23. Cosmo_Kid

    Cosmo_Kid Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    That's one way of looking at it. But look at the rosters of EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga clubs and you'll see that pretty much every player came from a youth academy. It's just that the richest clubs buy the cream of the crop.

    Are you saying youth academies aren't worth it? Pretty much every club in Europe has a youth academy. They wouldn't bother if they didn't see it as a positive.
  24. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Location:
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Country:
    United States
    See ... they players came from "a youth academy" not THEIR youth academy.

    NOW, why in the blue hell would it be a good idea for me to pump money (and most likely lose it) on something that is going to develop players for everyone else and only randomly for me ?

    You still can't answer a question genius.
  25. ejgrownarseman

    ejgrownarseman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    Because those players will have to be bought from your academy. The caveat is, will you profit?

Share This Page