Things we learned from the Colombia game

He can cross and pass better than T.N. But yes Salcido is getting older and needs to be replaced eventually, I am not a fan of Nilo (he is a good defender) I used to like the dude in Morelia, Aldrete.

I do not think a team can/should have 2 defensive minded FBs on the field at the same time (I guess is ok if you are wining)

So sure if the NT can find a decent RB that can provide help in the attack, then T.N. would be fine for the LB spot.

This instead

Both Rafa and Moreno were exceptional. Gio is better suited as a #10 then on the wings.

lo que me caga de la pinche seleccion, y el futbol mexicano en general, son las pinches preferencias que los tecnicos les dan a los rucos. que por jerarquia, experiencia, bla bla bla...ya hemos visto varias veces en ciclos pasados que los pinches tecnicos llaman a rucos que ya ni deberian estar en el equipo. ahorita Salcido y Rafa ya caen en esa categoria. pero por lo menos ya no esta Sinha.

Sirven de banca y para tener variantes pero de titulalares ya no. Pero ya todos sabemos como son las cosas en Mexico.

Here's the entire first half:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyOcB0NwbKQ"]Mexico vs Colombia [Primer Tiempo] 2/29/2012-Miercoles - YouTube[/ame]

Ayala is a great defender who I think should be ahead of both Rafa and Maza (has been benched lately) on the NT. His progress has been outstanding and he hasn´t been given a fair shake.

And please, Rafa was shaky at best. Didn´t you guys see how easily the guy (not sure if it was the guy who scored the second one or Pabon) took him on the shot that Memo had to dive and parried away (not the goal)?

Nope Hiram mier has something to say about that. I've been watching Mier since Copa America and the Panam games he has been terrific in my eyes. his the captain of the Sub23 team and he's only 22

-I would like to see Gastelum get a call up.

-James Rodriguez from Colombia is a beast

Mier is a great player, but Ayala is the superior player. He is above Mier in the pecking order for now.

i rank Ayala higher than Mier. Mier is good, but he's too inconsistent.

I learned:

1) to expect resistence against the new changes that include invites for jona and vela, while more popular players like zavala face less criticism despite being involved in a careless foul.

2) to give chepo some credit as he is one of the few coaches with the political clout to bring in all the unpopular players needed for a high FIFA qualifying record, including Vela and Jona.

3) some of the oldies like Torrado, Rafa, and Salcido are imperfect but still valuable compared to less experienced young talents like Zavala and Perez (just like Cherokee Perez). I wouldn't be surprised if we stick with some safe defenders for important qualifiers rather than to keep transitioning anyone who doesn't step it up. Rafa's physical decline doesn't really sacrifice a lot of goals as much as Perez and Zavala and even Memo, who's youth all proved more costly than Rafas decline. Yet Rafa is past a certain soccer age which only his greatness helps him overcome for the time being. I do not expect to see Rafa play in this coming world cup most likely, but it wouldn't be completely unreasonable.

4) I learned that the darned argies have depth in coaching and that Mexico 4-2-3-1 needs further work with lessons from Chepo, some possibilities to consider were mentioned by others in what might need to be looked at. Colombia had a good counter and some great offense and great passing (especially their second goal).

5) our offense is strong and only getting stronger, and though Cepillo Peralta's been gaining some of my respect, he didn't help himself with his punt to left field. That's why talking down the european talents is just not credible, even though there is good local talent like marco fabian, aquino, cepillo, amione, israel castro, torrado, etc.... we definitely need our europeans due to their quality training, the skills & talent, their experience against top international-level competition, etc.

6) Plus we dont have the depth to reject Efrain Juarez, even if he doesn't tear it up in La Liga his first attempt, he has performed better than any options we've found. also many critics of salcido and jona do not offer many credible challengers to their positions yet. we still need them.

Generally agree about Rafa having a lot of strengths that help make up for his weaknesses.

I doubt that Salcido was even close to being our worst, he was asked to do a lot on offense and defense, and did it better than almost anybody else on the team could have. I'd like to see him more stable on a task like either as a wingback that doesn't go so far up hill, or as a DM that focusses on the outlet pass (alternatively as a DM that focusses on defense). I think we have enough talent in midfield now to have the midfield do all the work on the 4-2-3-1 even if it tires them out a bit.
Jona looks likely to play. I don't know if any of the others are untouchable, although time is certainly on Zavala's side by the world cup.

I'd rank both Ayala and Araujo above Mier right now.

OK what careless foul are you talking about? The one that lead to the first goal? My friend that was not a foul but a mere theatrical dive by Cuadrado. If you see the replay in slow motion you can clearly see that Zavala does not even touch Cuadrado and if you do not believe me you can watch the highlights of the first half which were posted on page 11 of this thread.

You use the term "imperfect" which is the wrong term to use because NOBODY is perfect. The correct term or in this case terms are that these said players are way past their prime. The only way for an inexperienced player to gain experience is to play. So why halt their ability to gain experience just to put in 30+ players way past their prime? It should be a good mix of youth and experience, Rafa, Salcido, and Torrado can all come along to the world cup as long as they sit on the bench.

So what your saying is lets call up all the European players who bench warm while leaving out equally talented if not better local players that play week in week out? We saw what happened yesterday when Chepo decides to play these European players over the local players just because they come from Europe. If they are in top form then definitely bring them along but do not count out the local players just because they have never seen a European bench.

No depth? Do you watch La liga Mexicana at all? Give me Guti Estrada, Israel Jimenez, and Esparza any day over a highly off form Juarez. Same thing with Salcido gimme me Torres Nilo, Ponce, and Fausto Pinto any day of the week.

Totally disagree with y'all. I'm very surprised u guys rate Ayala higher then Mier. Ayala is good, I'll admit I haven't seen much of him but Mier has been very consistent with the national team maybe not so much with the Rayados, if some Rayados fans can elaborate on his club performances but as far as I'm concern he has been doing quite well dating back to Copa America and Panam games and more recently against the US, he looks organized and poised with his play. I'm willing to bet any of u guys that after the Olypmics is over, that he'll get more playing time then Ayala on the senior Nation Team

Are you saying that Vela and Jona are unpopular or I'm I just reading this wrong?

Would be a good correction defending zavala, but if you look longer he leaves his dangerous mark to throw his foot at a far away shot, getting in the way more than helping and leads to the tap in of the rebound by his mark.

Or: physically declining but experienced stars. I also believe they don't have a starting spot guaranteed by the world cup n giving the youth experience now is more important than winning a friendly with the best today. Another game with tweaks may teach a lot more. I'd like to see Jona again (but on the same side of the field as gio) and efrain as rb til a better mexican rb is found/tested/proven or at least an adequate substitute.

Make your case of better local club player specific and have them show it on the field. Not yet convinced by zavala or cepillo though cepillo is ready as a potential back up if not denigris, lower on the totem pole than the European based alternatives. Molina has not convinced either recently, but also a possibility to retry in future. Still I'd like to see zavala/Jona again.

Re your rb : let's see them against intl competition, you can't assume they'll stop a falcao or a neymar for example, they may or may not be the next "Perez" to fail. Unproven at rb still. Juarez the best proven rb. I like Torres Nilo and still like how he plays with salcido pairing rather than as replacing him. Generally I'd like to see prove themselves too, but time ticks.

Just out of context. See prior discussions by others arguing that they aren't good enough, their post histories will re-orient you.

lol noob,losing a crucial world cup match? You must forget where we play at home and how we don't lose there....plus were gonna fuk up a few teams away.

El Azteca shall guide us to the next WC like it always has....

Even then if shit is looking grim all we gotta do is light up a San Cuauh veladora

the best concacaf team is no better than the fifth or sixth commebol team

[]__[]

having your own country is better than being an island territory

Since Mexico was first invited to the Copa America in 1993, we have had two 2nd place finishes and three 3rd place finishes. No other team, but Braasiiiil la la la la la la la la la has had a better record. Why don't you and spermloverdactual or whatever his name is go make hot troll sex under your/his computer desk, while you both scream out made up soccer statements and then fill each others mouth's with white baby troll batter. Then maybe will you both shut the fuuck up. (no homo)

LOL

you wish your country had a semi-decent NT. Puerto Rico is a damn joke on the international futbol stage. it's no wonder you root for Brasil.

pinche vende patrias

Mexico needs to start bringing in those two young kids in europe the one that plays in Holland and they other with Braga, even if their not starters with their clubs they can atleast be some useful subs for the national team I am sure they practice daily with their clubs which is good enough to be subs atleast? Mexico can't wait til their 28 years old to call them. They need to be brokin in now why they are young!

That mindset is the same reason Mexico never goes past octavos de final.

*I'd like to see Ayala and Moreno in the back line, or Mier and Moreno. Eventually though, we have enough time to see whether players are gonna pan out in the future and see if they'll be useful for the NT.

At this point, we still thought that maybe Villaluz and Landin where gonna make it 4 years ago. A lot can happen in the next year.

*Salcido is done, both as LB and as CDM. He can play CDM in Mexico because of the way soccer is played there, but not in the international game. And he's done at LB because of the same reasons In My Defense posted earlier.

This has been noticeable since the World Cup, for a reference point, he's the one who wimped out of a 50:50 challenge against Forlan that led to Uruguay's only goal in that game.

Torres Nilo is a better player to start out with since he's more defensive, if Salcido is needed, he can come in as a sub.

*Guardado needs to get back in first division, scoring all those goals with his club is good and all, but he looks way off compared to before.

*Zavala and Jona are set, all they need is time to jell together.

*Gio is better from the right, Vela down the middle right behind Cheech and Guardado from the left.

*Barrera needs to get back in rhythm if he wants a spot in the NT and even then he should be used as a supersub. He also needs to be aware that other players like Aquino are doing good in the Mex league and if he doesn't display the Barrera of 08-10 he might end up on the outside looking in.