The Youth Thread | U18s, U21s, Next Gen Series

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Fitzgerald#11, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look, if there's one thing that's black & white for me is that I don't like cheaters. And the more frequently or egregiously they cheat, the more I dislike them and the more I never want them playing for my beloved team. Regardless of how much actual footballing skills they have. Simple as.
     
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  2. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    er, heskey hasn't been a full international in about half a decade, and hasn't been particularly highly rated in a decade, and more likely since he was at leicester.
     
  3. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    i'm with you
     
  4. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Like it or not its part of modern sport. Whats your opinion on the USA ski teams gear? Cheating or not?
     
  5. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    why is it part of it? has it become acceptable? if so, to who exactly is it now acceptable?
     
  6. WoodDraw

    WoodDraw Member+

    May 29, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any time we get a player a work permit but don't bring them home, it's a good sign they're gone.
     
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  7. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    this is pretty much true.

    since the illegal relationship with Bereveen ended, the loaning of players has ended up a failure. The club shouldnt even scout non-EU players anymore unless they are a legit special talent.
     
    DutchCane repped this.
  8. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't he starting for England at the last World Cup?
     
  9. WoodDraw

    WoodDraw Member+

    May 29, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #459 WoodDraw, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
    Also, you could end diving tomorrow by setting up a "dubious goals committee" type thing. Rescind cards for players that are the "victim" (for lack of a better word) of simulation, and retroactively ban the other player. It'd have to be consistent though, and most leagues have been very reluctant to question the ref's onfield decisions for some odd reason.

    [edit] And put me on the side that doesn't enjoy that part of the game. It annoys me, and I hate diving. I'd much rather see it taken out than become "part of the game", as people here have taken to euphemistically calling it.
     
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  10. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To an extent. But that doesn't make it right. Nor do we have to accept it. I'm all for video technology and some serious punishment for cheating... That'll stamp it out quick.

    USA ski suits? Haven't heard... What's the deal? But I don't care who does the cheating even if its my own team/country/players... It's all gotta go, starting with the blatant stuff that Suarez and Campbell practice.

    Sorry to have strayed OT a bit. ;)
     
  11. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    well, ok, hasn't played in 4 years then. he still hasn't been highly rated (in general) probably since his early liverpool period (and tbf his early career performances were very strong and promised more).

    jenkinson probably needs to play more games before anyone can really say either way. he's 22 now and really needs to be playing to avoid stagnation and to be able to improve if he can.
     
  12. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Basically it was designed for the downhill moguls, to hide body movement. Which is basically what they are scored on, less body movement higher the score.

    There isn't really right or wrong in sport, you do everything in your ability to win within in the structure of the sport. When I say structure I don't mean the rules. Its one of those things where you look underneath the rules. If they didn't want people diving they would make it a red card with a ban. The fact that its just a yellow, like "professional" fouls basically means its an accepted part of the sport and you are expected to be able to do it when called upon. Its another one of the reasons Arsenal aren't always competitive, Wenger has them playing with this nobility that doesn't exist in sport. Fouling, diving, aggressive play are all parts of every sport, different sports just draw the line at different spots.
     
  13. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The USA's freestyle skiing suits you mean? Like this?[​IMG]
    Can you explain why that's (a) cheating, or (b) successfully hiding the skiers body movement?

    As for your views on cheating in general or should I say "doing everything in your ability within the structure of the sport"... Wow that's some seriously twisted thinking. But I did laugh when you basically said we're not winning trophies because we don't dive enough. You're in rarefied air there my friend.
     
  14. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Yeah those suits, they create an illusion of lines, or lack of movement which is what they judges are looking for to score the performance appropriately, and were specifically designed to do that. Cheating?

    I suggest you watch Chelsea vs ManCity, it wasn't just a tactical master piece, it was a sporting master piece. The game plan managed to break down each player on ManCity in the plan, and they played the "game" its rules, and its refs. For example, Toure has a reputation as a big strong lad, who can power his way through opposition tackles. In effect it took some blatant fouls for him to get calls. Chelsea shut him down (as much as he can be shut down) through a combination of fouls, and aggressive play that he couldn't play through.

    Often the question is actually, "Is the punishment worth the reward?" And not, "is this allowed" Often yeah, especially right now as you need to get 10 yellow cards to "miss" 1 game. Getting a quality chance on goal, or a goal is worth the risk. Its a ridiculous system, that helps big clubs with better players consistently beat worse teams. How crazy is it that the game is designed so that Chelsea not only has better players than West Ham, but as a team can "break" the rules more often than them over the course of the season without significantly damaging their chances to win games?

    The saying rules are meant to be broken is a what defines "sport" at the highest level, playing the game is about more than just shooting, passing, and moving about to the best of your ability. Sport like most situations with a winner and loser are only about fairness after the fact.

    Here is an example of something that we don't do at all, that my U13 coach had us doing. When an opposition CB has a yellow card. Why aren't we targeting him? Creating situations in which he has to track or stop Theo? Sometimes it seems like we purposefully play on the opposite side of the pitch from players on cards.
     
  15. WoodDraw

    WoodDraw Member+

    May 29, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We've recalled bellerin from his loan. Anyone know why? Seems to be really weird timing.
     
  16. total_football

    total_football Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Either someone's injured from the 1st team or from the U-21s?
     
  17. ptpab

    ptpab Member

    Jan 13, 2005
    Montana
    Under Zola he was starting and playing well on the reg. Under this new boss he hasn't even sniffed the field. I imagine we'll send him out to a place where he can play.
     
  18. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tafari Moore was injured last night, but it still seems a little odd given that the whole point of the loan was to get him regular competitive first team action.
    When did the new coach come in? Wasn't it only a couple of weeks ago that the loan was extended to the end of the year?
     
  19. ptpab

    ptpab Member

    Jan 13, 2005
    Montana
    New manager was hired back on the 18th of dec . I think in early Jan is when he signed for the whole year.
     
  20. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Why would you bring Bellerin back from starting football to play in the gaddamn U-21 that's just stupid. Maybe Jenkinsons hurt smh
     
  21. total_football

    total_football Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Was the provisional CL squad announced for tomorrow's game? That will give a clue.
     
  22. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    True. FWIW I always found it astounding that Bellerin could possibly be worse than Jenkinson
     
  23. -apoc-

    -apoc- Member

    Jan 24, 2007
    Satellite Beach, FL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Because he hasn't been starting there anymore either. They changed coaches and he hasn't been playing under the new coach.
     
  24. total_football

    total_football Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  25. Saipan93

    Saipan93 Member

    Jul 3, 2013
    Tokyo
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    What do you guys know these academy's players?

    [​IMG]
    and here (is this Brandon Ormonde-Ottewill)
    [​IMG]
    and here (the one wearing number 2)
    [​IMG]
     

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