The wool over our eyes. Center Defensive Midfield.

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I think in an odd way the fact that we don't have large numbers of stay-at-home types of defensive midfielders, coupled with either inexperienced or aging center backs, is why we need to play with one. Without one, we leave too many gaps in very dangerous areas. Our guys like Jones and Bradley, while very good players, like to roam about more than you want from a dedicated defensive midfielder. I have not seen Jones play the role much, but he is very athletic and aggressive and likes to attack. Maybe he could play within himself, but you do then lose his ability to cover a ton of ground during a game so it would be a trade off. You need a guy with excellent positional discipline to plug the gaps back there. And while we have plenty of center mids who love to tackle and cover a ton of ground, I would agree that guys that like to play more positionally are harder for us to come by.

    The questions really start if Holden regains his form. Talent wise, a midfield of Holden, Bradley, Jones is obvious. But, will any of them be content to sit back and play that plugging the gaps role? And if not, are we a better team with one of our more talented guys sitting out?
     
  2. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not that worried about the DM situation. At least not as compared to past US World Cup teams or compared to other areas of the current squad with bigger concerns.

    The US went into the 2002 and 2006 Cups with only one true DM: Mastroeni. After him the team had DM depth only from Reyna in both Cups, who was much more of a #8, the versatile O'Brien in 2002 and the mediocre Olsen in 2006.

    In 2010 the US had Edu and Clark as DMs, with Bradley in the #8/flexible role Reyna had before. But BB didn't really play with designated DMs, so comparing with 2010 doesn't get you too far.

    The current DM pool is arguably the best the US has ever had: Williams, Edu, and Clark (the guy is only 29 years old at the moment and much better than Olsen was back in the day) are either playing at a high level or are internationally very experienced. The MLS depth from guys like Beckermann, Kitchen and Larentowicz is also pretty solid and each may also be viewed as better than Olsen was in 2006. Plus, you have flexible 2-way #8s like Bradley and Jones who provide additional emergency DM depth in the same way that Reyna did back in in 2002 and 2006.

    I'm still far more worried about other positions. I'd rank my biggest worries as follows:

    1) Starting-quality CBs. You'd like 3 in their career primes playing at high levels and with some international experience built up before the Cup. Only Cameron seems close to fitting that criteria this year, and even he is still internationally new and plays RB for his club. The guys with the experience are aging, with injury concerns or struggling with declining form. The prime-age guys with potential are running out of time to earn serious international experience. This was the #1 concern as soon as the 2010 World Cup ended and it remains the #1 concern today.

    2) Productive offensive mids, given Donovan's absense for most of the last year. Glimmers of hope for brief trials from Zusi, Gatt, Diskerud, and Shea, but nothing is certain and none have any real international experience. There's always Dempsey, but isn't he also filling a hole at second striker? He can't plug all the holes by himself.

    3) Productive strikers. Gomez has stepped up and worked hard. But Jozy still needs to prove to JK that he belongs. EJ bossed Antigua's USL mediocrities, but what does that really mean? Boyd, Agudelo, Bruin, and other young guys are still mostly hope and wishes. Dempsey helps a ton filling in here, but then what about attacking midfield (see point #2).

    DM ranks no worse than #4 on my worry list, battling the outside backs and goalkeepers. My smallest worry as at the 2-way #8 midfield role, which I think the US has plenty of talent and depth in (and why JK often chooses to play with 2 such players rather than just 1).
     
  3. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Holden (knock on wood) could shake things up quite a bit if he returns anywhere close to his peak form of nearly 2 years ago.

    Ideally, Jones would play the #6 role based on his past experience in such a role, especially in the years prior to his serious leg injury. Then Bradley and Holden would be the worker-bees in the dual #8s roles.

    But obviously Jones hasn't been used as a true #6 in a while, under multiple managers for club and country. Given Holden's smarts, quick feet, efficient passing, and good speed of play, I'd be tempted to test him as a #6 in any 3-headed US central midfield with Bradley and Jones. I have no idea how well he could adapt to that role, since he thrived as a #8 for Bolton. But I suspect he has all the tools to make such an adjustment. That's what I'd try first.
     
  4. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I too would be tempted to try Holden in the deep role, particularly because I could see his game and positional sense being more suited to plugging up the holes back there than either Jones or Bradley who are all about work rate and constant hard running to me. And, having a guy with his tidy passing back there could be a big boost for our transition from back to front. I think in many ways any of the three COULD do the job. But, I think it is a matter of having the proper mentality and the patience to prosper there as much as it is about who offers the most physical tools and what aspects we would most miss in other parts of the field. We get all three of these guys healthy and in the mix, it will be no small task for Klinsmann to sort things out there.
     
  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    JK will use kid brother Danny against the minnows and Edu will come on to handle the big boys. This would make Edu's pt with his club more important.
     
  6. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Edu can't hang with the big boys. He has zero touch and zero vision. All he offers is someone that is athletically gifted running around on the field.

    How people rate edu over beckerman baffles me. Beckerman might not close the gaps as fast but when he's out their he at least doesn't create gaps on our d. Not to mention the fact that he can actually start the offense and pass the ball while under pressure. Whereas if you sneeze on edu he will turn it over.
     
  7. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess is in the eyes of the beholder because I can't imagine anyone saying Beckerman is better than Edu.
     
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You are thinking purely offensively. What I mean is that Danny will be fine until some really good forwards run at him in the other direction. At that point it doesnt matter what his vision or touch or passing is, he needs to step up and defend which is where Edu comes in.
     
  9. warmblooded

    warmblooded BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 17, 2004
    Clowntown, USA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We may be in a period where there are not many "world class" DMs. The position is as fickle as any other. Busquets, Mascherano (mainly used as a defender for Barcelona), Alonso, Essien, De Rossi (fighting with Bradley for playing time at Roma, ;) ), all seem a bit top-heavy and meh...

    In my mind, a classic DM or "destroyer" sits in front of the two CBs. The outside backs are the "rooks" of soccer. They are much more directly involved in the attack than the DM should be. The DM rarely proceeds above the offensive-half of the center-circle. As his job is to cover, he certainly never goes up front for corner kicks or free kicks (which is where a quality CB will pick up some goals here and there.) His job is to slow down and disrupt attacks in a calm and intuitive way and, upon possession, to distribute the ball to his offensive bros.

    When Real Madrid picked up Figo and Beckham, and let Makelele go to Chelsea, Zidane said (of his compatriot), "why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley, when losing the entire engine?"

    I'm not sure that the US has a player that can transcend to make the DM spot a world-beater. If I were Klinsmann, I'd beg Jones to grow up and take this responsibility, then look to Williams or Edu. Of the MLS crew, I have to admit that I've always admired Larentowicz's game, and would be fascinated to see how he'd play with the first team, just out of curiosity.

    Of the young-ins, I'm not sure.

    Here's a nice Makelele (and DM) article for perspective...

    http://www.thehardtackle.com/2012/claude-makelele-–-the-position-the-player-and-the-man/
     
    Sactown Soccer and Excellency repped this.

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