The wine thread

Discussion in 'Food & Travel' started by Green Tabasco, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    The best value wine out there IMO:

    [​IMG]

    Goes for around $9-11 a bottle (at least here in New York). Tastes more like a $15-16 bottle. And on the second-day after opening it only gets better.
     
  2. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the problem with this thinking is that it doesn't have any real parallel in the rest of the world, except in boutique olive oils, AFAIK. You can go to a ice cream parlor and get a taste of Jamoca Lavender Creme Swirl, but it's a tiny spoon.

    If you are getting two ounces of wine out of a 26 oz bottle, that's a bucks worth of wine if the bottle costs $13. If it's a $40 bottle of wine, then it's 3 dollars worth if you get a two ounce taste. Why should you get free wine, simply because you claim to be there to buy wine?

    I think they should remit the tasting fee if you buy wine, however.
     
  3. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    It's actually not that uncommon to have sample product tastings when you visit a manufacturer's location (provided they actually have an open door policy). Cheeses, ice cream, olive oils, chocolate, beer, chutnies, cured meats... it's the benefit of going straight to the source.

    You complain about the economics, but talk to any vigneron and they will tell you that free tastings at a cellar door are one of the cheapest and most effective methods of marketing/promotion available. Dollar for dollar, the conversion rate into sales is astronomical.

    Priced tastings are a disgrace. The idea that I should have to pay for the privilege of being advertised to is worthy of contempt.
     
  4. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    my wife and i went to the Tillamook Cheese plant in Oregon. the cheese there is a lot cheaper than in the stores here in SoCal, except maybe CostCo, but you have to buy 3 pound bricks at CC. that's not exactly boutique cheese, but it's excellent for the price. we haven't been to any other cheese makers, but it's an excellent idea. thanks.

    but the other products you mention are like ice cream, in that you can tell what it tastes like from a very small amount. i've sampled olive oil at several stores, and typically, you take about a teaspoon full. hardly a quarter's worth.

    if they remit your tasting fee if you buy their wine, you have no complaints.
     
  5. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Hardly. Whether I ultimately buy the product is irrelevant. Why should I have to pay a company so they have the opportunity to advertise to me?

    Tastings are not a benevolent act towards the consumer; it's marketing (and a very lucrative form of it at that). They are investing in promotion in order to reap a future economic benefit.

    Just because they are doing it by handing over part of a physical product rather than (say) buying TV airtime doesn't mean that suddenly I should have to pay for it.
     
  6. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you're paying for something you willingly consume.

    was that hard to understand?

    the fact that you are given the fee back if you buy something means you didn't have to pay for what you consumed.

    that sounds very reasonable on the part of the merchant.
     
  7. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    That's like saying that because I enjoy the annual Geico Superbowl ad, but I get my insurance from someone else, I should have to pay for watching it.

    Tastings aren't the product. Tastings are a marketing tool used to sell the product. Trying to recover advertising costs from consumers who don't end up purchasing is a cheap and stingy scam.
     
  8. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally, I won't go into tasting rooms that charge tasting fees.

    I also hate the fact that the per bottle and per case prices at vineyards in Napa are actually more than what you'd pay at a retail location. WTF is up with that?
     
  9. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you've decided to define a wine tasting purely as an advertising gimmick, but that's a limited view.

    the reason it's different from a commercial on TV is that you actually consume a portion of what you potentially may buy.

    your Geico analogy breaks down because you are never "consuming", in any sense of the word, the insurance coverage that Geico provides.

    interestingly enough, if you have cable or satellite TV, you are paying for advertising, however indirectly, but you do so in order to have access to programming that isn't available on "free" TV.

    paying for wine in a tasting room is similar, because you wouldn't have access to some wines ( cf. cable channels ) otherwise.
     
  10. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    The fact that a vigneron decides to advertise using a sample of his product rather than paying for airtime is beside the point. Business cost is business cost.

    Compared to TV advertising free tastings are cheaper, have a better conversion rate, results in a better sales margin, and is more likely to create brand loyalty.

    The only thing that makes it different is the consumer is right there in front of you while you're advertising to them. It means it's easy to single out those whom it worked on, and who it didn't.

    Thus, it's easy for them to recover costs by (effectively post-facto) stinging the people the advertising didn't work on.

    It's a scam.

    That's the view vineyards take. If it wasn't one of the most successful ways to promote their product they wouldn't do it.
     
  11. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    of course it's effective. if it wasn't effective, the vineyards wouldn't do it. but it isn't a scam because you have consumed some of the winemaker's product whether you purchase it or not.

    i don't care whether you go to wine tasting rooms that charge a fee or don't, but all you're really doing is making a choice not to try certain wines.

    i bet you think you're making a definitive political statement. lol
     
  12. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Such logic is a byproduct of limited thinking on what constitutes a 'product'. A TV commercial is a product. In reality all you have is economic resources and how a business chooses to expend them.

    They're scamming you because the reason they're doing it (economic investment in advertising) and the reason they use to justify charging you (your consumption of their product) are different.

    You're welcome to be a chump and put up with that.

    :rolleyes: It's not a political statement, just a consumer choice. There's enough good wine in the world that I don't have to deal with scummy cellar doors that charge for tastings and sell at equal to or above retail.

    If I want to drink Napa wines I'll attend tastings at my club and buy through a wholesale importer. If I want a good vineyard experience next time I'm in Cali, from the sounds of this thread I'm going to Sonoma.
     
  13. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Go a little further north to Lake County, and check out some of the tasting rooms in Kelseyville and Lakeport.
     
  14. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    a tv commercial is a product that is sold to a TV station or TV show. except in the case of a cable or satellite viewer, nobody pays for that commercial, except as advertising costs are passed on to consumers. accordingly, every product i purchase has a price that is influenced by advertising expenditures.

    that's your jaundiced view.


    oooo. you're in a club.:eek:

    if a cellar doesn't remit the tasting fee, i can't see why anyone would patronize them.
     
  15. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Which is the way it should be. The customer pays for the price of generating, promoting and selling the product. Not the people who don't want it.

    It's not my view, it's the reality. They would offer tastings even if they weren't allowed to charge for them, because they still receive a huge benefit.

    Charging for tastings on top of the extra sales they receive through the promotional value is double dipping. It's just a way of opportunistically scamming extra money out of consumers. Like I said, if you want to be one of the suckers who goes along with it be my guest.

    Very mature.

    I can't see why anyone would patronise a cellar door that stings the consumer for their advertising costs simply because they couldn't close a sale.
     
  16. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do find it funny that I can typically go to my favorite liquor store in DC and taste Napa Valley wines for free, then actually pay less for them than I would at the vineyard should I decide to buy some.

    I do like Napa wines in general, but I think they're far too expensive compared to other good wines you can find that are better values.
     
  17. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    How many of those local tastings are of bottles over $40? Over $80? Not many, at least in my experience here in the New York area.

    As StiltonFC hinted at earlier, its easy to underestimate the cost of a taste. For an $80 bottle we're talking about a $6-7 sample. And there are usually about 4 samples included in your tasting fee in Napa.

    Also a lot of people that visit Napa come from far away so its not like they can buy a lot of wine to take back with them home.

    But I would be pissed if there was a tasting fee and then the tasting included cheapo wines.
     
  18. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The liquor stores I go to in DC (Calvert Woodley, Chevy Chase Wine and Spirits, Schneider's of Capitol Hill, MacArthur Beverages) often have free tastings of wines that retail in excess of $40 per bottle.

    As far as $80+ bottles, I'd be seriously surprised if any vineyard in Napa would open those up even for a paid tasting.
     
  19. JayRockers!

    JayRockers! Member+

    Aug 4, 2001
    We tasted the Dolce at Far Niente. It was definitely a paid tasting. And it's over $80 for a 375ml bottle, although I'm sure you can find it for less.

    Thx,

    Jay!
     
  20. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How much did you have to pay for the tasting?
     
  21. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    They do. But they are not cheap. I don't recall exactly, but tasting the Opus One was definitely over ten bucks. Maybe over fifteen.
     
  22. JayRockers!

    JayRockers! Member+

    Aug 4, 2001
    It was an expensive visit. Especially after buying a few bottles

    Thx,

    Jay!
     
  23. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I should have been more specific. I was referring to typical tasting fees which are usually $5-10.
     
  24. JayRockers!

    JayRockers! Member+

    Aug 4, 2001
    Mike, you would have hated it today.

    Willamette Valley had some sort of Memorial Weekend tasting fest. Every place was like $10-$20 for a flight. Although, we did get 6 free glasses from 8 wineries. Just hope we don't break them on the flight home.

    Thx,

    Jay!
     
  25. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sorry to see that the pay to taste trend has migrated outside of Napa.

    A few years back (more like seven or so) we tasted barolos, barbarescos, barberas, gavis in the Piemonte. Not a tasting fee in sight. We even got Federico Ceretto (great-grandson of the founder) to break out some of the stuff he was "experimenting" with - pinot noir, zinfandel, chardonnay, merlot, etc - and was not for sale anywhere in the world.
     

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