Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Not to pile on ... but I am, so I will. I was at Saitama Stadium last season for the Urawa-Kawasaki match. Packed house, as you would expect, and the supporters' end was in great voice for about 60 minutes or so. A funny thing happened when Kawasaki went 3-1 up, though -- all the non-blue sectors of the stadium seemed to go deathly quiet, save for the groans when someone skied a shot into the seats. Reds fans put on one hell of a show, no question, but I think Herr Voltage would have a more sober opinion of Urawa's fandom were he not caught up in the midst of the maelstrom.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread But surely Reds fans made a lot of noise last season when Marinos went up... eeeeerrr... 6-1 in Saitama??
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread That's all well and good (and I'm not here to argue), but I wasn't even the one who brought up success in the first place. The culprit was comparing the success of Gamba and Kashima to Urawa, not any other teams. I was just there to say otherwise. I was just standing up for my team, when someone was trying to belittle both them and their supporters (which includes myself). I don't think the topic of past success should really have anything to do with this subject. I'm not a fan of the negative actions of x% of Reds fans (as hopefully everyone here knows), and I support them regardless. There are plenty of fans out there who do the same, and hopefully everyone is aware of that fact. The problem is, with such a large supporter base (bandwagoners or not), the problems that occur with the Reds are amplified more than any problems among any other team supporter groups (and you can't say there aren't problematic people - it happens in every country). I've also felt, for a long time, that there are problems with the club's board. It does effect the team's performance on the field, because it can effect both the coach and players. The amount of coaches they've had just in the last decade is ridiculous. They have a tendancy to get rid of a coach after just a few small errors, and are throwing the next coach into the deep end, which is never good for chemistry. Different coaches have different philosophies, and when players have to keep getting used to new playing styles, it gets complicated. It would be nice if Urawa could latch onto another Ooft, Buchwald, or Osieck, and actually keep them for more than a year or two. Hopefully Finke, with his long-term plan for the club, will be allowed to stay and provide some much-needed stability, in the future.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Well, I think most points of view have been sorted out by now... Perhaps we should close this thread and open one on Japanese supporters in general...? I am sure there will be a lot to write about, seeing the trend lately...
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Fanatic supporters are not criminals... either they are Reds or not...
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread No, J.League will do just fine without the Reds. The fans will just stream else where.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread To continue conversation from J1 thread... I approve of the Chelski comparison for Urawa. Consider: - Spends big, but on all the wrong people (check) - Perennially over-rated (check) - Poor man-management and locker room (check) - Can't keep a manager to save their lives (check) - Fans are excessively arrogant with no reason to be (check) - Recent surge of fans have a reputation for being shameless glory-hunters and/or thugs (check) I'm sure there are more, but I think you get the picture. I'm generally neutral when it comes to JLeague -- I like the league over all. I have some favorites (Marinos & Avispa), sure, but they also change year to year (ie: I'm getting quite tired of Kashima winning.) I would prefer to like Urawa, and I was very happy for them when they won ACL. Urawa has a chance to be something very special, but so far they've taken that chance for granted. For me, Chelski is not a club you want to be compared with. They (along with ManSh) are everything that is wrong with modern football. The club as a whole needs a major facelift. Their reputation is very low on and off the field at this point. Firing and hiring yet another coach isn't the kind of facelift I'm talking about either. There are some gems in Urawas' younger players and I hope he can bring them together to play as a team. The sooner they get shot of their over-paid albatrosses the better it will be for them and JLeague. But that's still just on the field. Maybe a season like this and last year will bring some humility back to JLeagues "biggest" supported club -- but I'm not holding my breath on that front. I can see why Gora wouldn't want Urawa in ACL as a rep for Japan. But to bring this back to a slightly positive angle - I also remember last time Urawa was in ACL Final and it was grand. They are the only team so far to make ACL look and feel like the end-all Continental competition it aspires to be. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOFM2hJjgkc"]YouTube - Urawa Reds Supporters ACL Final[/ame]
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread I cut this from the J1-thread: you're right, the players Urawa have brought in the last couple of years are nothing to be jealous of even for a small club. But they got the opportunity to spend big, and some very expensive players from earlier, so I reckon many are jealous just because of that. I havent been to that many stadiums yet, 8 or 9 I think in Japan, but i struggled more finding Atsubetsu and Expo 70 than Saitama. not to mention Muroran, but thats not exactly comparable. all in my opinion far more worsely located than Saitama. It takes approximately 1 hour to get there from central Tokyo(or something), and thats not too bad I think, and the train stops just outside the gates. I agree with you on the uniforms though. They look in all honesty crap this year If Urawa werent a "big club", then why are so many people literally hating them and why is it them who creates so much headlines? Prior to 2004 they werent much, but that has nothing to do with today. Nobody sees Verdy as a big club today, although they dominated in the 90's? We should "not forget" the past, but its even more dangerous to still live in it. but this is truly starting to get out-debated, cause i feel we're both just repeating eachother. To sum it up I feel Urawa receives a lot more critiscism than they deserve, and on the wrong premises. the fact that you and some others hate them is not something I or any other can change I think, just like you will never find me cheering for Liverpool, Chelsea or Lillestrøm. So lets leave it at that!
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Yeah, there are similiarities between Chelsea and Urawa, but there are also some factors that puts Urawa in a better light than Chelsea too. On your other points I agree with you, they really need to do something to better their situation. About Urawa in ACL, I cant really see how that was negative. It raised the profile of japanese football all over Asia as well as in Australia, and they actually played some pretty nice football that tournament as well. Their fans behaved great too.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread ...sigh... Let me try in red, bold, capitalized... *** BECAUSE THEIR FANS AND SOME OF THEIR PLAYERS AS WELL ARE OBNOXIOUS !!! ***
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. I wanted to end on a positive note about Urawa instead of just slagging them through the whole post. But I still think their current situation (on and off the pitch) is crap and they need to turn it around.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Sad but true, getting rid of face-losing Tulio Tanaka would be the perfect start. I thought spoiled children were petulant, until he came along.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread If they get rid of Tulio, they may never score I feel for Tulio. He shed blood and tears for Urawa, and they reward him by surrounding him with little kids that know how to run around in circles but don't know how to win.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread I can't tell if this is referring to his teammates or the supporters.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread well yeah, i know alot of people feel so, but that doesnt explain why Urawa get all the headlines. Blackburn has a pretty nasty squad as well with much more obnoxious players than the Reds, but you dont see them in the headlines do you? why people feel so about Urawa, I guess are after all, not my duty to find out of, but to not approve Urawa as a BIG club, which was the reason behind my post in the first place, i find strange. And It was that I was trying to point out in my previous post, although I see now that I did a poor job doing so.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread That's probably because Blackburn is in England where acting like a #$%@ is not only accepted, but encouraged. Japan tends to set the bar a lot higher when it comes to accepted behavior at sporting events. What happened in the big Osaka - Urawa controversy is practically expected every weekend at almost every ground over there. Could you ever imagine Nagoya getting trashed like Manchester was? Or Japanese starting brawls with Australians in ACL ties?
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Tulio should just go back to his last club, which would treat him much better and would give him a much better chance to shine.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread A Japanese girl tried to strangle me, at the Club World Cup. Probably because I couldn't hit back. Oh, and a Japanese guy kept yelling in my ear. Aside from that, Scotch, what you've said so far is pretty much dead on the money. There needs to be a serious evaluation of the squad, in the next transfer window, and buy the players that need to be bought, to fill the massive gaps in our squad. I wouldn't object to us focusing purely on the Emperor's Cup, and just not getting relegated, from now on.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread And with one post you display your complete ignorance of English football... Teams like Blackburn and Bolton are viewed as hacks that can't play football without kicking the stuffing out of the opposition and are looked down on by everyone but their own supporters. You say that their behavior is encouraged? I think not. And as for crowd trouble, no, it is not expected every weekend, and if small sections of a team's supporters' do have the urge to kick the stuffing out of each other, they at least have the common courtesy to wait until they are out of the stadium (Millwall not included). I honestly can't remember the last premiership game that had an incident like the Urawa/Gamba confrontation. Yes some of the lower leagues are still stuck in the 80's but English top-flight football is quite different than what you have described it as.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Urawa/Gamba confrontation was down to people throwing PET bottles at eachother... and then instantly escalating. Seeing things like PET bottles being thrown is very common in Britain -- even Celtic vs. Arsenal the other day I saw one almost hit Arshavin. And Celtic generally have a high reputation compared to many. Especially during European and International ties, many cities have complained about British behavior many times.
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread Okee... Please let's keep the posts about Japanese soccer (Basse see where we end up when you compare Reds to Chelsea...? ) THANKS!
Re: Urawa Reds Controversy Thread To be honest, the only thing I care about Reds is the development of Haraguchi (I guess Tulio is supposed to go abroad sooner or later so I'm not worried) Haraguchi is facing possibly the first dilemma of his career——he can't get enough support from teammates nor leading the troop by himself. If he can get through all of it I believe he has the quality to become one of the best attackers in Japan.