The Transfers' Discussion Thread | "Sandro, Javi got us a CB yet????"

might be possible to get agger + song for less than martinez

 

Song doesn't play with much passion to his game and wouldn't fit so well in this Barca team although I do think he is a good player.

I know it won't hpapen, but I'd be interested to see how Wanyama from Celtic would fit in this team. Etienne Capoue as well. Not sure if we have these players on our radar, but I'd take a look at them. They wouldn't cost too much and both can play at centerback/defensive midfield.

Agger I would take in an instant because he is one of the best options out there right now but only if the price is right, of course.

 

I don't agree with this at all, imo he'll fit very well with Barca. I don't know about you Barca fans, but i'll take him over Javi Martinez if they had the same prize tag

 

Song usually misplaces ten passes before he gets an assist and like I said doesn't play with much passion. He isn't an improvement over any of our current midfielders or defenders so why go and spend 20M+ just to get him?

Don't think he is better than Javi Martinez either, at all.

 

Song is not better than Martinez, then again he's not going to cost 40 million euros either. Have no idea at all what you mean about him not playing with passion, does that mean he should clen his fists, shout 'come on' and kiss the badge? He had 14 assists last season, in reality i don't think this will happen as their are other targets the club will pursue ahead of him.

 

that's the test.

 

No, but he looks very careless most of the time and misplaces a large majority of his passes. Yes, he had 14 assists which is a great number for a player in his position, but that doesn't take away the fact that he's been caught out of position which helped expose Arsenal's weak defense at times last season and he misplaces maybe a good 40%-60% of his passes. He isn't a better or at least not financially smarter option than Capoue, Wanyama, or Agger right now. Javi Martinez ain't happening, in my opinion.

 

^ Alex Song's passing accuracy is not between 40-60% (dunno where you got that number, but even if you just threw it out of your hat - come on, no top league player passes 1/2 passes to the opponent lol). It's somewhere between 80-85%. As for making mistakes "at times", all the players with defensive duties do those kinda mistakes many times every season.

I'd maybe sign Agger over Song, but he is a very good player irregardless.

 

Is there any stat that proves this?
And Martinez isn't an improvement either on the defenders and midfielders you guys already have imo

 

And Martinez isn't often caught out of position too? And isn't Martinez the player who gave away the highest number of penalties to the opponent last season in la Liga? i think i saw that somewhere, not sure (can someone confirm that stat?)...
And do you have any stat that confirms Songs 40-60% success rate on passes? i'm not even a big fan of Song but i don't believe Martinez is any anyway or form better than him.

And talking about Song, i saw him at the airport in Paris this morning. My friend who's an Arsenal fan was wondering if he should go and take a picture with him but he didn't do it lol Song was trying to go around un-noticed and in all honesty, seems like almost no one noticed his presence.

 

I said Javi Martinez is pretty much out of the question already. I do think Javi is a better player when on form and he's certainly the better player coming from deep with the ball and has a physical presence on the pitch, like Pique does. Song doesn't have that and even though he's the most improved player in Arsenal's squad right now, I still wouldn't take him at Barcelona. He's no Keita or Yaya let's be fair here. He doesn't have the dynamism or positional intelligence that those two had. If we're going to buy an African player that can offer different things and offer some steel in defense/midfield, we can do better than Alex Song.

You're right, it isn't 40-60% but it isn't 80-85% either. It's more like 70-75% which is pretty poor in my opinion for someone who could potentially be a Barca player, according to some of you. And Song doesn't give much cover to the Arsenal defense so he is just an ok midfielder in that regard. He's not as good as Busquets, Pique, or Mascherano and wouldn't offer anything that these guys can't offer so I don't see why we need to go and spend 20ME+ on him when we can get someone like Capoue or Wanyama for a cut price.

http://www.eplindex.com/11471/alex-song-defensive-midfielder-opta-stats.html

 

I checked some sites and never saw a figure as low as 70, always at least 80. Dunno where you see 70%. But anyway, I don't think the exact percentage is important here: what matters IMO here is that he just seems like a perfectly normal good-ish passer, not a horrible passer. And when you get placed into Barca, your pass accuracy percentage gets immediately higher as Barca's system favours "lots of easy passes" so if you get 80 right in Arsenal you surely will get 85 in Barca, which is good enough.

You're right though that he's worse than all the dudes you mention: but he offers quality depth, which is what we are after. We never meant to chase a starter - some proven, solid squad player with some experience is ok.

How much you think Capoue and Wanyama would cost? How much better/worse you think they are than Song? It's tough to see through rumour walls, but what do you think is the biggest reason why we aren't strongly linked to those two?

 

Yeah he's not as good as Busquets as a DM, but how many players are? I'll take Song in the midfield over Pique and Mascherano but they're both obviously better than him as Central Defenders. And these players you listed are also better than Martinez and he won't offer anything those guys can't either.
Anyway i personally think Song will be a good fit for Barca.

 

If the Song signing (and that is a big if) does happen it is not one that is going to sent the pulce racing with excitement is it. It's what I would describe as a functional signing, he would do a job as a cover for Busquets and coming on as a sub, but he's not the sort of player who is going to turn a game if we are behind or struggling.

 

^ That's exactly what we need though: someone who can cover.

I'd guess the next "exciting" name player we're gonna sign is Neymar and that happens either in January or more likely in the summer of 2013.

 

The Neymar signing is one to file under "I'll believe it when it happens", pity the guy is such a huge d**kwad, makes Ronaldo seem humble.

 

I'd say it's likely that he moves to Europe soon, and that Barca is the likeliest destination. But yeah, happens if happens.

As for "pity the guy..." I dunno. I mean, kinda don't wanna judge, but then again lol yep he doesn't seem too humble.

 

It's not so much his arrogance, as you say most strikers have that, it's more his all round pratishness, and as for his play acting, jesus wept. Anyway Neymar is a long way off for Barca, more realistic are players such as Agger and perhaps Songh.

 

^^ Yeah yeah, and Neymar's non-humbleness might make him less likable (especially when he doesn't play for your team) but when scorers are concerned, it's just a pretty common characteristic. So I totally agree.

 

Minutes per chances created divided by key passes per game and accurate through balls per game, you get around 72%. That's where I get that figure from, it's not too bad but I personally expect a higher number for a player who plies his trade in defense/midfield positions and is potentially a Barca player. Then again, Mascherano's numbers weren't so high in this area either, but I don't think we should be counting our chickens that a Song deal would work out just as well as the Masch deal did.

Well, Capoue's market value is currently 10.5-12ME, don't think he would cost much more than that at all seeing as he recently declared that he wants out of Toulouse in hope of playing at a higher level. He's at the same age Yaya was when he joined us back in 2007 (seems ages ago now doesn't it) and he's a very similar player to him in a few ways.

Wanyama is similar and he is three years younger than Capoue, one of the up and coming African young midfielders in the game right now, and he's a regular for Celtic, a CL club this season. His market value is under 4ME, easily the best option we have right now financial wise, can also play centerback as well as defensive midfield. He played against HJK last week in the CL qualifiers so I think he might be ineligible to play in the competition if he signs for us now, so that might put us off if we even were looking at him.

I think the biggest reason for us not being linked with these two are because they aren't very well known players right now like Javi Martinez, Song, Agger, and Thiago Silva are. We seem to be looking for a big name for what we need to fill in the squad, which I don't get as Capoue and Wanyama are cheap and could offer anything that the above players could offer.

 

Disagreements:
Your calculations don't give the pass accuracy correctly IMO. Like, that's not how you calculate it. You just simply compare the amount of successful passes to all the passes and that's that. Nothing to do with chances created or through balls.

I think the big reason why we aren't interested strongly in Capoue and Wanyama is that they simply aren't that good/proven.

The "Barca wants big name players" argument I think simply exists because very often (not always though) when Barca is interested in a player, that player has shown skills to build himself a little name already. Like, you gotta be super good to get interest from Barca, and if you are, you have a little name for yourself by default. The "no-name" players Barca signs usually are signed to Barca B to grow/to be tested.

Agreements:
I very much like the core idea of getting good value for money instead of just splashing for the big players.

 

Barca have done both throughout their history, I mean we have always brought or tried to the best players, at the same time the club have tried to identify up and coming talent. We spent a lot of money during Pep's period in charge, a lot of which was never recouped.

 

I don't understand the rumors that we're looking for another midfielder. We're stacked at AM (including a lot of promising B players). At DM, Busquets rarely gets injured or needs rest, Mascherano can easily move up, and JDS can play Copa and garbage minutes. CB seems so much thinner. Two injuries/suspensions--in a position that leads to a lot injuries and suspensions--and we're suddenly relying on Bartra or Fontas with only his counterpart on the bench.