The Texan Gets His Spurs: Dempsey at Tottenham [R]

To be fair I have posted some Alan Partridge clips, but those were after being asked who's the bloke in your avatar.

I know there's a lot of Liverpool supporting American soccer fans (in the media too), I just hope the narrative this season isn't Liverpool focused and what could have been. Dempsey ended up a a halfway decent club in my humble opinion, tis all.

COYS......

 

I think some folk are underestimating AVB. I don't think he will make the same mistakes he made with Chelsea. The guy just needs to get the guys that understand his system on the field. Guys like Lennon and even Bale will have to adjust to it. They play very direct.

 

In all honesty, the drama that's driving things right now is the fact that Liverpool low-balled Fulham and how that wasn't expected. As far as Spurs go, I'm sure we'll talk more about them as soon as we can actually watch him and see how he does and where he fits in. Give it a week and the Liverpool talk will die down.

 

Hope you're right for Clint's sake (don't care much for Spurs) but they looked barely mediocre against an awkward Norwich side except for Dembele.

 

I'm not sure how seriously Spurs are going to take Europa this season. Redknapp famously couldn't be bothered by the competition but AVB is a different animal, he sort of made his name in the Europa. So I'm not sure whether Friedel or Dempsey will play, Friedel more likely than Dempsey. We have loads of young midfielders like Tom Carroll, Alex Pritchard and Cristan Ceballos he might want to give some first team action and he might save Dempsey for PL matches. Especially Tom Carroll because not signing Moutinho might excellerate him into the first team. He has a similar style to Mouthino or Joe Allen which is something our midfield is missing for balance, a player who plays deep.

 

To me that was the craziest thing about this whole saga, who ever was doing the valuations of a player that can slot into multiple attack positions and is proven to score in that league at 6m is out of their minds.

Just makes me think if Clint was any other nationality the price would've been different. I hope he continues to bang in goals for fun against the top sides for not having the sack to pony up the cash.

 

Dempsey's listed on the Spurs site as a striker along with Ade and Defoe. I would have though he'd be competing with Sigurdsson or Lennon for time rather than Defoe.

So, Friedel's gonna be the Cup keeper and Lloris gets the league games or is Friedel straight first-choice?

 

Spurs haven't really played with a full team yet, we need this break. Adebayor is a critical player to how we play because even when he's not having the best of matches he pulls players all over the shop, which makes players like Bale so much more dangerous. Cast your mind back to the Norwich match last season, when Bale roasted their defense. People look at that run from Bale but don't realize that lane was created by Ade pulling his man giving the space for Bale to run into. Bale hasn't played well early with Defoe and there's a good reason for that, same with Lennon.

The midfield sans Modric is a work in progress. We have a few ball playing players now but we don't have the solidity and creativity he provided playing deep controlling the tempo. I'm not sure Dembele can do this though I rate him highly. Ideally our midfield would consist of Dembele, Parker/Sandro and a deep lying playmaker but the Mouthinho deal falling through means we have to cope in other ways. Actually, when Parker gets back AVB might play Parker, Sandro and Dembele central. Sandro as the destroyer, Dembele playing sort of a Ozil for Madrid role, and Parker box-to-box. While he's not that creative Parker, he carries the ball very well and he isn't a wasteful passer. Problem is sometimes he runs to much with the ball and finds himself crowded out with no options. A midfield with those three might compensate for the loss of Moutinho if only till January when we can get someone else in.

Dempsey will probably play on the wing or fill in centrally. I'm not sure AVB will be starting Dempsey in the same role VDV played from the off.

We've been disjointed early but much of that wasn't the fault of AVB. We looked far worse last season though the competition was better but there were similar reasons for that. Hopefully after the break we can sort some things out and AVB needs to fix his substitution patterns.

 

Honestly, most players raised in the English games don't know how to play a continental style.

I think getting the midfield together is going to take some work. They have the pieces to do it I believe.

 

Although you must recognize the irony that you are claiming that Americans undervalued the American because he was American ...

 

I'm not sure if benching Lennon will work. He's underrated by neutral fans but most Spurs fans will tell you when Spurs are playing well he's right amongst it. He's direct but the pressure and tempo we play at he's a very important player, not to mention he's a good defensive winger.

There were a litany of reasons why we surrendered 3rd last season but the most important factor was losing Lennon and not having a good replacement which led to tactical mastermind 'Arry Redknapp making decisions which cost us points.

To be honest I know my team very well, I don't have a clue how we'll play. As I said before I'm not sure we'll play a man off a striker and dropping Lennon without giving some time for Ade, Lennon and Bale to get back some form might be a bad idea, though I wouldn't mind to see Dempsey play their sometimes.

 

What is AVB's style? Never saw his Porto teams and Chelsea was just plain erratic.

 

4-3-3 with inverted wingers. In AVB's system wingers score goals. Falcao had a great season but the key player that year was probably Hulk on the right cutting in, also Varela cutting in from the left was dangerous. So maybe and this is pure speculation AVB is trying to get a similar dimension with goal scoring wing forwards and not traditional wingers, which maybe could mean Lennon will see less time. Still Dempsey ain't Hulk, they both score goals but Hulk is an athletic freak and can easily get around players.

By the way, I don't want to talk to much about Chelsea but teams were irratic because he thought he would be given the brief to build the team how he wanted which never happened. Spurs are a better club for him because Levy is patient and apparently has given him the space to play how he wants. That was a failure waiting to happen because of the egos in the locker room and his own ego to be fair. It's hard to tell a team full of veterans who just recently came off a title win we're going to change everything we're doing. Not only that but the bloke before him was one of the most decorated active coaches.

Still for his system to work he needs a player who plays deep, that's the anchor in the midfield and as of today we don't have that, which is why he tried to sign his former player Moutinho. Hypothetically if Modric would have stayed the team would be looking good right now adding Dembele, Sigurdsson and Sigurdsson. Failing with that on transfer might cost us 4th. Still I'm patient with AVB, I thinkw with a complete team we'll be fine.

 

Not just Liverpool, I'm questioning the system as a whole, if Arsenal called Fulham with less than 8m shame on them same with Spurs stealing him for 6m. He scored 17 in the league 23 across all competitions last term any other player with just that alone would get 10m thrown at them.

For Liverpool not to have anymore money after buying Borini and Alan is just cray when they knew all along that Dempsey was a must buy. They should've just kept Bellamy or Carroll because they should've known that goals is what they lacked last year. 3m tho really?

 

I think you could get a similar effect by playing as follows:


----------------------Ade-----------------------
---------Dempsey-----------Sigi----------------
Bale---------------Dembele-----------Lennon
-----------4 across the back---------------------

Dembele can play the Modric role. He is a strong tackler, and great in possession.
Of course, this formation sacrifices a lot of his forays towards goal, but Dempsey
and Sigi are strong in possession, strong in the pivot, and will be able to release
Bale and Lennon to run the wings. Both Dempsey and Sigi (along with Ade) become
the box crashers on crosses. Dembele is there as a safety value, long shot, keep possession
while setting up play again in offensive 1/3. Bale and Lennon have to have more defensive
responsbilites in this set up (since there are no 2 DMs like Sandro/Livermore) and Dempsey,
Sigi have to apply pressure for 2/3 of field by tucking inside as they track back (this will bring Dempsey back to his Roy Hodgson days). But Dempsey is excellent as an inside forward, particularly in transition when the need is to hold the ball and let the play catch up. He will find Bale all day on the wing if things too crowded inside. Dempsey will be a real threat to carry ball forward, play into/run off Ade, lay off to Sigi for a shot, or find Bale in the corner for the cross.

Also on occasion, Dempsey needs to fill the hole defensively that Bale has left.

I think Dempsey, Ade, and Sigi will be very strong in air from balls from Bale or Lennon,
who will now be able to play the deeper lying cross out of midfield as well.

I think the triangles between Ade, Dempsey and Bale and Ade, Dempsey and Sigi would be something to behold.

I don't like Sandro and Dembele as deep lying midfielders (or Sandro and Livermore) the formation is too deep in my opinion and posession could be retained higher up the pitch and
attacks stopped by Dempsey and Sigi by pinching in and cutting off channels.

 

supercooper, that midfield doesn't have enough bite.

Dempsey can play as an inverted winger but I think he might be better centrally in this system. Dembele could be the 'Hulk' for this side. So, basically I see him competing with Sigi.

 

That looks OK but I would play Parker in Siggy's role. I like him but I think at the moment that could possibly not be solid enough. My concern with playing Dembele in a role where he's really keeping the tempo is he's not really a prolific passer though he does keep possession well. Does he have the passing range to dictate play from that deep both with short passes and long passes? He creates chances by dribbling past players which would leave us exposed in the middle.

So I think you would need at least one runner in that midfield to cover spaces, which would be Parker or Sandro. Actually when Sandro is at his best he plays more box-to-box. Similar to how Juventus play with Pirlo. People focus on Pirlo's passing but he's actually a good dribbler, very hard to get off the ball. Thing is though while he's a good dribbler he uses short passes to get him space, and Pirlo in space is bad for opponents. My thing with Dembele playing in a similar role to Pirlo is I've yet to see the passing were he can pick out players from deep, or opt to pass himself into space like Modric or Pirlo.

The Juve middle 3 (at least last season).

Marchisio-----Vidal
---------Pirlo

The other two Marchisio and Vidal are runners both are box-to-box and creative. I'm not really sure you can say that about Dempsey and Sigurdsson, they both are quite attacking. Part of the reason why it's necessary for Pirlo to have two runners with him is to keep him from running so much (even though he covers more ground than people realize).

Which is why to me still the best midfield 3 pairing would be......

Deep lying Playmaker------Dembele
----------------Parker/Sandro

Which is pretty similar to how Porto played with Moutinho, Guarin and Fernando.

Or if you did something like.....

Parker-------Dembele
-------Thudd

That might work as well.

 

But still, Liverpool, who telegraphed the most interest, did not value him at more than 3 or 4 mill. And they are Americans. It appears Rogers valued him more than his American owners. The irony of that dynamic cannot be lost on us.

 

Here's where I would entertain discussion.

The common logic (seemingly many teams) now is to own the middle by have 2-3 dedicated Central Midfielders, of which 2 are primarily Defensive. I don't like this system because
I think it sucks the air out of attacks (as we saw with Tottenham this past weekend) and still does not necessarily prevent goals from mistakes (as we saw this past Saturday). What I like about Hodgson's team ON DEFENSIVE is that he can take an average defender (which Dempsey was...he went from below average---- to average----to (I think) slightly above average now...
Hodgson took Dempsey and taught him defensive discipline to hold his ground on defense- not to vacate his position or zone. This is hallmark of Hodgson's teams- very disciplined on defense and it works well for average defenders- they don't have to think too much once the system is understood.

In the same way, I am proposing:

----Bale----Dembele----Lennon
Walker- CB-------CB-------------RB

If you have these 7 set, it is very difficult to break down in the final 3rd, in addition to Dempsey and Siggi applying pressure in the middle 1/3. I think you can utlize the speed of Bale and Lennon to 'get back to their station' once the ball is lost, while Dempsey and Siggi apply pressure to immediately win back in the opponent's half.

There are lots of videos of Dembele on Youtube, but the first thing to remember is that the guy simply does not lose the ball. You can place him in the center of field and he can find the short pass out of pressure or dribble by guys. (Can he hit the longer pass) Technically, there is no reason he can't. I think if he is trying to spray the ball wide to Bale or Lennon, he could do so, or dump the ball into space. He could potentially hit a long ball to Ade, but I think most of the attacks would be better served by finding Dempsey or Siggi in space on a shorter pass through the middle (with less degree difficulty). Dempsey is great in receiving ball in middle, and making right decision to turn or safety play back or spread wide. I think this is one of his strengths.

I think Bale and Lennon might get taken out of the play sometimes by playing too high up the pitch (which limits the space behind the fullback). I think if the attack was more geared toward going through the middle (Sigi and Dempsey) in the middle 1/3, this would in turn open up the flanks, but it would be less obvious.

Again, Dembele would be a great guy to play the ball to Dempsey, and then receive the return pass (but then 10-15 yards further up the pitch) and then to ping it wide to Bale or Lennon.

I think your proposed lineup crowds the middle too much, and I think that actually works against Dembele's superior ball handling skill. 1 or even 2 defenders simply can not stop the guy if there is enough space around. Every time he will either beat them off the dribble or find the passing channel. I think you actually increase possession by not crowding the middle as you are drawing up. I say this respectfully.

 

The move didn't go down to well with this guy...

 

It is funny isn't it? I'm not sure it was the Americans or one of their hired guns. The one number in the equation that might have been forgotten to be added......Dempsey's value in Jersey sales. He's the one player outside Donovan that could have been counted on to move $x,xxx,xxx in shirts in the US over the next 2-3 years. I'm fairly confident in saying it might have made up for the extra 3M.

 

Ironic, only clint and dembele built for 4-3-3 formation. This is a 4-4-2 team until AVB can transition. AVB makes life unbearable with overly complex movement and spacing. Without the three best strikers in the world, his teams look lost. Invert Bale and Lennon so they can use pace to cut in a combine with D&D. THey have better attacking backs than defending backs so get them up the pitch on the overlap for crosses. Give Clint a free role. Move Clint to Lennon role and bring in Sigi if they need to keep possession.

---Walker---Gallas---Verto---BAE
-------------------Sandro----------------
----------------Dembele----------------
Bale---------------------------Lennon--------
---------------Dempsey-------------------------
----------------------Ade-------------------------

 

For some reason I read this as "I certainly agree that Lloris is the hair apparent."

 

This is an aside, but has anyone ever been able to get reliable shirt sale number for, say, LD at Everton or Demps at Fulham? Because for a club to make 3million LBS in license fees off shirt sales, you have to move a lot of shirts. A LOT of shirts - I'm not sure, even at crazy official kit prices, that LD or Demps come anywhere close. Beckham sells shirts worldwide but these guys are mostly restricted to the US (beyond fans who would buy for any big signing du jour.)