Alert: The Tactics, Personnel and _______ thread

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by benni..., Mar 17, 2014.

  1. Marco10

    Marco10 Member+

    Sep 9, 2002
    offensivelyApparently we don't have the players in their natural roles or the coaching skill set to get the players on our roster to do the things the coaches want them do, which in itself is an indictment of the coaching staff or the roster creator.

    I thought at first DC would play a hybrid 4-3-3 in the sense that Boswell, Parke, and the off side back either Fernandez or Franklin would hang back when attacking, plus Kitchen or a midfielder (like Arnaud) would cheat back to help. So in effect, it was a 3-5-2 in the attack and a 4-4-2 in defense. Well, considering evidence to date, we don't know how to or care to run that formation properly or effectively.

    So, if we're back to basics. a 4-5-1 hybrid would work if stiffs would actually do their jobs.

    Franklin Boswell Parke Fernandez
    Kitchen Jeffery/Neal
    Silva/Martin
    Espindola Deleon/Seaton
    Johnson

    Boswell and Parke has to be able to sit in the middle, Kitchen has to be able to troubleshoot and help advance the play, Franklin and Fernandez have to be able to attack at will knowing Kitchen and Jeffery (and the offside back) will cover. Silva and Deleon have to have lesser defensive responsibilities and only attack when countering, because they have little defensive skills if being charitable so maximize their talents offensively. Espindola has to go balls to the wall harassing defenders and getting wide to take people on as much as possible without leaving a hole behind him, AND EJ has to be the finisher. EVERYONE else does their work properly and EJ closes the deal. If he ever checks back to a ball EVER, it should be because he's drawing a central defender out and one touching it back to someone who will one touch it back to him as he turns and burns that guy he drew out.

    That and draw some freekicks around the box a lot more so you can use your relative freekick skill to bear.

    Some would say all you did was replace Arnaud with Jefferey and fair enough. They may well play out that way because these guys might well suck, but I'm saying if you give people a role to fill they can fill they generally will fill it, especially if it is in their wheelhouse. They do not want to suck in general. Give them a wall to knock down, they usually try damn hard to knock it down. They don't try too hard to knock down the great wall however because they know they can't.

    I do not see "roles" filled in in general on this team, nor do I see them as able to "freelance" intelligently, but I do see natural tendencies by these players and this is how I would line them up. They won't beat the elite, but that team should be middle of the pack and fighting for a playoff spot.

    Given what I have seen of this roster and this coaching staff's ability. That should be plan A. I would hope plan B is a lot better than plan A drawn up by a guy drinking bourbon on a Tuesday night wishing the world was a better place.
     
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  2. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless I'm missing something, isn't this a 4-4-3, and thus illegal?
     
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  3. Eismahn

    Eismahn Member

    Sep 26, 2003
    Silver Spring,Maryla
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the X is just a position players would move to from time to time, not a 12th player.

    I'm upset to find the post-match thread vs. TFC closed, after hearing Chad Ashton's post-match review, having nowhere else seemingly to post this opinion, so here seems as good a place as any.

    What this team needs, especially if we're not going the route of bunker-counter attack from a 4-5-1 or the like,
    is to fire Chad Ashton, who if you listen to his comments, can be identified as the author of the defensive mindset and foxhole architect of the "let's get zeroes" concept.

    View his analysis here: http://www.dcunited.com/news/2014/0...-ashton-dc-united-vs-toronto-fc-march-22-2014

    His words summed up the struggle to create offensively, and he admitted as much that though the team had a chance here or there, they didn't result in goals. He acknowledged the team's need to be more creative to create more scoring chances, but then IMMEDIATELY stated if you're not doing that, you need to find a way to keep the shut-out.

    THIS THIS THIS!!!! The team needs to abandon this PLAN B mentality!! No more of this "well, we obviously can't seem to score, better tighten up and don't let them score."
    The team should always do it's best to execute defensively, but we need to move from "OH, NO- THEY SCORED!! WE'RE DOOMED!!" and concentrate on how to get to "Oh, they scored- no problem, we'll be scoring 2 before the half."
     
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  4. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eismahn had it, the X was intended to depict the instructions and expected player movement, which I described below the formation.

    And the complaint about the post-match thread being locked has been noted. The intention of the moderator team has been to close the post-threads on Wednesday and create the pre-threads. Your feedback is appreciated.
     
  5. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Eismahn, the other highly disturbing part of the 'analysis' was how positive it was. Basically DC United let the first two opponents dictate the game and execute their strategy and Chadio has the gall to say that people played well. Frankly, the only thing I want to hear from the coaching staff is 'we were inadequate and ill prepared in many positions on the pitch. We have a plan to better accentuate our strengths and carve out opportunities. We are no longer going to emphasize useless possession in our own half and will work to press our opponents quicker. We must change our mentality on the pitch and stop thinking play it safe. We have been punished for playing safe for eight months now. We need to play with risk and get results. We have the tools. We have the players. We just need a more aggressive attacking mentality.'
     
  6. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    In other words, "Boys, attack the goal the way I attack the buffet table!"
     
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  7. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having watched Toronto in two matches, it seems that they are willing to risk the integrity of the defense to populate a full bore counterattack whenever feasible. They may get burned eventually, but it's working for them so far. I don't see DCU taking this risk under the present coaching staff.
     
  8. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They only attack with attackers, the fullbacks stay home. They count on Jackson or Rey to beat a man or two, or Bradley/Osorio to play the incisive ball through to the forwards. There isn't a lot of risk, they only attack with a few guys, but they do it quickly with intent and then there's Defoe, a lethal finisher, on the end of it.
     
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  9. Eismahn

    Eismahn Member

    Sep 26, 2003
    Silver Spring,Maryla
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Spot on.... Say Congregation, Can I get an AMEN?
     
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  10. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar

    Seems to me is that they're trying to work their way out of this. Work is important but work alone doesn't make beautiful art. There needs to be inspiration and expression.

    Attacking play is so much about confidence. The confidence that you can make a no look risky pass. The confidence that you can dribble past someone and outrun them. The confidence that you can put a shot on frame from 30 yards. You may have the abilities to do these things in a repetitive practice environment. But it takes some inspiration to do it in a competitive game.

    At this point it feels like the harder we work and the more rigid and structured we try to become the deeper hole we dig for ourselves ... This team is lacking that emotion in their game. They're lacking basic courage to attack. Being overly cautious just sends a message to your opponent that you have no confidence in your attack.
     
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  11. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I especially like how we're still taking short corners.:mad: We're like the overweight chick that lost 100 lbs, but still sees her 220 lb self when she looks in the mirror.
     
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  12. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I ********ing hate short corners (as you know if you've been within 23 feet of me when United takes one)
     
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  13. liverbird

    liverbird BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 29, 2000
    Mars
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They seldom work and I hate them with a vituperative passion as well
     
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  14. NASI GORENG

    NASI GORENG Member+

    Feb 19, 2013
    fairfax
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Somebody make this man our new coach
     
  15. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well according to shammy anyone could do better than Ben, so I suppose in one way we actually have the most sought after coaching position in the country right? You step in and make an immediate impact, who could ask for more?
     
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  16. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At some point it's not even about what a new coach can bring tactically, but more about a new coach giving some hope to the team and it's fans. Right now, United is beat before they even take the field, a new coach could a least temporarily alleviate that mentality, and that may be more important than any tactical changes, at least in the short term.
     
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  17. NASI GORENG

    NASI GORENG Member+

    Feb 19, 2013
    fairfax
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    i know you were being at least partially facetious but i agree

    we arent even doing basic things like completing (forward) passes to our own team
    to find another coach who was similarly incapable of football fundementals would take really bad luck
     
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  18. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the team is focused too much on bonding, chemistry, and togetherness and not enough on tactics, fundamentals, discipline, and strategy. I've seen absolutely nothing for 3 years that shows me we have any discipline or belief in a team strategy.

    I don't care that the players like each other off the field, that they are "tight knit", etc. I want them to want to die for each other on the field. We need someone like Novak who is going to make the lives of a team like this one so miserable that they have two choices - play better, or sit the fcuk down and make room for someone who can.

    I think Ben feels like he is part of the team where in fact he needs to make it clear that he is the coach. I don't believe he has the ability to make his player's lives hell.

    Ashton is a clown and needs to go.
    Don't know much about anyone else though this team needs a coach that can take the team all the way to the edge (like Novak) and not allow them to fall off (like DiCanio).

    James
     
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  19. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is AVB available?

    James
     
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  20. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is more than one way to bond the players together. USA hockey in 1980 is one example. The players hated Brooks and bonded together in that hatred. It's not a given, but it has happened that team's have performed exceptionally under the leadership of a tyrant. I will say it's a different time and it may be the case that this kind of coach is a relic that just won't work anymore.
     
  21. DecadeOfDCU26

    DecadeOfDCU26 Member+

    May 2, 2007
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thoughts on trying DeLeon in Silva's role if Silva is out for a bit?
     
  22. SoccerEsq

    SoccerEsq Member

    Aug 28, 2000
    Maryland SoccerPlexish
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like the idea of putting Doyle up front and pulling Espindola back, though maybe not as far back as a diamond midfield AM. The diamond midfield worked in the past for DC United when it fit the personnel, but I don't think it's our best alternative for the current roster.

    I'm thinking of something more like a 4-3-3. Tell Doyle to try to stay central and focused the goal, maybe slightly emphasizing the left since EJ tends toward playing a little withdrawn the right side. Then let Espindola float a little in an attacking midfield role (he's going to do it anyway).

    Maybe Doyle with his size could also hold up the ball some and pass back to EJs feet allowing him to attack the goal facing forward. I'm hoping Espindola could work some balls into space for EJ to run onto as well. Whatever we do, we've invested in EJ and need to focus on making that work.

    Note that the defenders need to be more selective in choosing their occasional runs forward since playing with 3 midfielders will both pull the mids in centrally and leaves fewer of them to help on defense. I'd really like to see our outside defenders focus more on longer, but accurate, diagonal switching balls that help pull the opponents defense out of shape.


    Doyle---
    ------------EJ
    ----------Espindola----------

    -- Neal -- Kitchen -- DeLeon --

    Christian -- Parke -- Boswell -- Franklin

    Hamid​
     
  23. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We might have to.
     
  24. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    I want someone who runs around intelligently. Not just runs around. Running around a lot and out-hustling his match up is DeLeon's game. Organizing the attack and making smart killing passes is not. Not unless his role is to play defense against the opponent's organizer who starts well in the back, a al Pirlo. In that case, we're totally reliant on our stellar outside midfielders and overlapping outside fullbacks to start attacks.
     
  25. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    De Leon is taking a hammering from supporter's. I think he just us on low confidence.
    I liked his game better when he relaxed and wasn't trying to run around doing to much defensively. He's far more composed and clean that he's been showing
     

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