(THE SUN ARTICLE): "It's Time to Think About the End of Wenger"

No, I don't understand that to be the case at all. That's certainly not the substance of management's public statements. In fact, that's back to the Martin Daoust theory again. Wenger and the board are in cahoots so that the board can squirrel away dividends. That may actually be true, but I for one am not taking it as a fact until we know more.

There's always been proven talent in the League who are at some time available for transfer for reasonable prices, maybe one or two steps down from Messi and Ronaldo: Charlie Adam, Arteta, Sessegnon, Scott Parker, Palacios, Dembele, Jagielka, etc. And in general Wenger has typically done an outstanding job when he gets players in the prime of their careers or just before it, say 21-23 years old.

The reason why we don't get these players has nothing to do with our business model and everything to do with Wenger's decisions, in particular his tendency to make decisions as manager which aggravate his inadequacies as a coach instead of mitigating them.

There are ways to work around this, but they all fail in the same place. Wenger is willing to work for the club indefinitely as long as he is the final word for all things Arsenal, and he's unwilling to work one minute for the club in any other capacity.

That's the box Wenger has put us in. It's like suicide by cop, if he could actually find a cop willing to pull the trigger.

 

One thing that hurts us on the financial side is the shirt sponsorship deal with Emirates. Because of the new stadium, the board wanted a good portion of the money up front, so they settled for a long-term deal.

Currently, Spuds get double the amount we do from Emirates, and we sell more shirts per year. The deals for Liverpool and Man U completely blow ours out of the water. In fact, Man U's training kit sponsorship deal pays more than Emirates per year.

Hopefully, when the deal runs out in 2014, we will be able to get a market value price.

Possibly, though I doubt it, some of that money could be added to the transfer budget.

 

were you upset when Arsenal lost the carling cup final?

 

yeah, this is the snobby and entitled attitude that many Arsenal fans have that pisses me the fucc off. Champions League football isnt a damn birthright and nothing is fuccin wrong with winning the Europa League. If United or City in the Europa League this year, they will celebrate it like crazy. why? because its a damn trophy. If we have to be in it next year, then we should try and win it.

Would I rather Arsenal be in Champions League? Of course, but would I turn my nose up at the "Mickey Mouse competition?" Hell no, and I dont think any player or anyone at the club would either.

If we ever win won, I hope you are very angry about it because that will make me smile ever harder.

 

Yeah, Catfish, you were kind of scarce for awhile. You may have missed the fact that it's like this all the time around here now, and has been for some time.

 

Yeah, sorry, I think I started the whole rage-oholic shitstorm. Seriously, I'm not mad at you at all; every now and again, I get pissed off to the highest of pisstivity, and need to release the valve, especially when the knives are out for Wenger. Sure, he frustrates me sometimes with his decisions, but my colors are well and truly nailed to the mast. Arsene fucking knows.

 

I did warn him.

 

I see little evidence of that, since other clubs have finished outside of it and have bounced back.

As for less prestige, so what? It still is a major trophy, and we have not won anything for a while. Beggars cannot be choosers, can they? It's UEFA's fault for damaging the prestige anyhow, few said the old UEFA Cup was a nonsense trophy.

Spurs was able to get Parker and Adebayor in the summer, and keep on to Modric, despite missing out on the Champions League. They did this since they knew they had what it took to challenge again.

You all are being too negative/Chicken lickens. Again, I don't see how one season missed of Champions League football means the end.

 

i stopped reading after the word Sun.

 

it really is a testament that we are a top 5 table team with this roster.


Wenger is the brain and heart of this club.

another knee-jerk thread looking for a scapegoat.

 

what exactly is it a testament to though?
it's like giving a view on a glass that's half full/half empty. you say it positively, others will say it negatively and your next comment will be taken by each to suit the first opinion.
if top 5 isn't seen as acceptable then you have just put wenger forward as the reason and therefore offered him up as the scapegoat.

ps. is a reaction which can legitimately be based on anything from, say, 3 seasons to half a decade considered "kneejerk"?

 

Arshavin needs to go before Wenger though. You'd know more about him than me, but the few games I have watched him play, he's been so bad even Coventry City would put him on the bench. I'd not have him in the Rovers squad unless he signed a £15,000 p/w contract.

 

Another season of nonsense with the same idiots in charge. Don't worry lads. Whatever little we have left this season will be destroyed by next season by these same bozos. Another false spring is quickly turning into a nightmare. Next year everyone will be debating on whether we can qualify for the Europa league.

No other friggin' manager would have made through seven seasons without a trophy in a big club. Demand action! Save AFC. Fire Wenger and Gazidis.

 

If Arsene leaves, then:

- who replaces him?
- does the top management/culture change also? will we be big spenders, akin to Chelsea or City? or be a Spurs, and meld good British (Defoe, Bale) players will reasonable quality foreigners (van der Vaart, Modric, etc.)?

I don't think our problems are terminal, and frankly IMO it's an overreaction. I think the losses to Fulham and Swansea were off days, as lots of other top 4/5 teams have had freak results lately (spurs drawing with Wolves, Liverpool drawing a lot, Chelsea drawing at Norwich, etc.) It shows IMO how football fans are fickle, as during the good run of form, Arsene was the bees knees, and that was resultant from most Gooners wanting him out after United beating us 8-2.

Our "problems" (and the use of quotes is deliberate as I don't think it's as serious as being made out) can be solved in the following ways, as I see it:

- Sign top English players in the close season, as Liverpool and Spurs have done.
- Be bigger spenders, and use this in the context of manageable debt. As long as our general debt levels reach xyz percent of revenue, then we should spend as needed. City and Chelsea have gained unsustainable debt levels. And for Chelsea, they still haven't won the Champions League yet, which is Roman's big aim. i can see him walking away, especially if Chelsea continue to be successful in England (as to be fair they have been consistently since the late 1990s) and do shit in Europe.

 

So Wenger gets a pass on assembling a sub-par roster? Holding and giving long-term contracts to under-performers? I applaud his efforts for the club but he must be held accountable for squad he has and the results...

 

Is the roster sub par? Right now we have the 5th biggest payroll in England, and we're 5th in the table. Sounds about par to me. As far as giving contracts to under-performing players, what team doesn't have dead weight on their roster?

 

I think so, especially given Wenger's lack of confidence in a significant fraction of the roster. Raw numbers of bodies isn't the only thing to consider but it's important in its own right. Ie, you have to be very very lucky to have anything good happen when the raw numbers don't add up.

Injured or healthy, by my count there's 15 senior players the manager has confidence in or reasonably willing to play. There's 6 prospects that the manager likes as prospects. There's 8 senior players that the manager has no confidence in and only plays if he has to by injuries or suspension. Those numbers just don't add up for the ambitions of the team (of the 15, there were 9 available who played yesterday and that includes Verm). You can quibble with one guy here or there but I think the overall numbers are pretty legit.

By itself this isn't this isn't the end of the world. We need to move a half-dozen guys out and bring a half-dozen quality guys in, say 3 who are 18-22 and another 3 who are 23-28. But Wenger either can't or won't do this, and the upshot of that is the AA/Ox drama from yesterday.

In short, yes the roster is sub-par. What's worse, I fear it's going to stay subpar for as long as Wenger is the only significant decision-maker in the organization.

 

Isn't that exactly what Wenger did this summer? I really don't understand your point. It sound like you believe Wenger wants a team filled with players that he doesn't rate. That would be utterly irrational.

 

Actually, it is and I was going to write more about that but I figured my comment was getting long enough as it is. During the summer window we brought in 10 players to the senior squad one way or another (7 permanent purchases, one player on loan, one player from loan, one player bought and sent on loan). Not getting Juan Mata was a horrendous disaster. But that aside (and contrary to some opinions), Wenger had an excellent summer window.

He did that because he had to. But it still wasn't enough. We still have AA, Squatch and Chamakh on the roster, and we still have Denilson, Bendtner and Vela on the books. We've got maybe a half-dozen moves left to do. And instead of doing something useful and proactive, we're back to the same MO that caused the problem in the first place. On average for each of the last ten windows, Wenger made maybe one significant move where he needed to make 2 or 3, and shit got compounded.

Now it's probably unrealistic to think we can make six moves in a January window, but we can make at least one or two. But we're not doing that, there doesn't seem to be anything useful brewing. If we do get somebody it's probably a sop to keep the fanbase from rioting. I don't see why we're supposed to support Wenger's continued presence when he seems to put his own ego gratification over the best interest of the club.

 

I can only imagine how gratified Wenger's ego was yesterday. He must be loving all the adulation from the fans.

 

Well, yeah. And did you see what his response is? "I'm completely above the place where any of you can second-guess me." Guess what, he's not.

 

To be fair though, three league losses in a row doesn't exactly constitute "freak results." Especially when coupled with the greater worrying pattern of the last few years.

Just sayin'. Other than that I don't really disagree with you.