(THE SUN ARTICLE): "It's Time to Think About the End of Wenger"

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Catfish, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. deaner1971

    deaner1971 Member+

    Aug 10, 2005
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the one aspect where I do question Wenger's contribution. I feel like he is too loyal or stubborn and just isn't looking rationally at this squad to assess who is and who is not part of the solution for addressing our problems.

    If a new manager came in, with no loyalty to the current crop, how many would he keep, even if he intended to carry on Arsene's brand of attractive football? Not many, I would wager.

    We should be sitting on a f*&% ton of money from the high profile sales over the past few years? Adebayor, Toure, Clichy, Fabregas and Nasri (that list makes me laugh at Man City, no matter how much silverware they claim) all went cash cow on us.

    I don't expect us to spend City kind of money but just address the obvious talent lack.

    Wenger just won't spend it because he doesn't want to "kill" the current crop of inconsistent middling talents and that is where I see him being a detriment. Relying on the ligaments and tendons of Diaby, Gibbs and Van Persie or the form of Chamakh, Walcott and Arshavin is just foolish in the extreme.

    And yet he clearly knows that players whose careers he doesn't want to "kill" with healthy competition are not good enough. Honestly, Park could already be fulfilling his national service obligation and I wouldn't know the difference. Is Miyachi a real person or a member of the Yakuza to whom we pay protection money by pretending he is a player? Could go either way.

    Sorry, I love all the Wenger has done for the club but his behavior lately is just perplexing and I see the club in decline. I don't want this to be the legacies of Wenger and Rice but I fear that, should they leave now, it will always be the counter-point to the prior years of brilliance.
     
  2. Romfordray

    Romfordray Member+

    Oct 24, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We DO NOT have money to spend freely.

    Wenger has been very astute with our spending while the club has remained in CL. Our ponds are stocked with young talent thanks to Wenger. Sure we have some dead weight but we are in a peculiar situation in that the second string of players are a bit over the hill and the young ones are not there yet. In another season, they will be.
     
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  3. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    He won Ligue 1 and got to a European Cup semifinal and could have won more had Marseille not fixed the league

    Just because no one knew him in England doesn't mean Wenger was a nothing manager that Arsenal took pity.


    Comparing Pre-Arsenal Wenger to bums like Coyle and genuine nobodies like Lambert and Rodgers is disrespectful.
     
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  4. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'm sorry but this is just not true.

    Last summer the club got rid of 8 first team players either sold or on loan (those who we tried to sell). Those talents he didn't want to "kill" like Denilson, Bendtner, Traore, Vela, etc are gone now.

    There was no stubbornness then, was there? Or did you just not pay attention last summer or pretend it didn't happen or does it not fit in to Wenger being stubborn like you want to believe?
     
  5. AfrcnHrbMan

    AfrcnHrbMan Member

    Jun 14, 2004
    Philly
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Truth.


    I ran across this blogpost this morning on a wikihack likening Wenger to a manager of a J-pop group haha. I wish I could have seen the wiki page.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2012/01/19/arsenal-hacker-1-akb48-wikipedia-page-0/

    The Swansea result seems to have taken a toll on some people.
     
  6. kanonier

    kanonier Member+

    Nov 7, 2005
    Bloomington, Ind.
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Somewhat. Bendtner, Denilson, Vela SHOULD be completely gone, but they're not. That's not on Wenger, though.
     
  7. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    it could be said that he has held onto some players for far longer than many others would, giving them increased (and probably over the odds for their level) wages with little upside to show for it, and it has led to stagnation and been detrimental to building a better squad (which i think most of us would agree has been needed for a few years).
    wenger's past and admirable astuteness seems to have deserted him when making quite a few decisions over the last few seasons.
     
  8. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We've heard this same argument for going on 7 years now. When will this team of young players break out? They haven't for SEVEN YEARS.
     
  9. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    it's really not. trust me.
     
  10. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    See, with greater or lesser degrees of harshness this is the sort of thing a decent-sized part of the fan base wants. But I don't think that those who are in favor of such a thing have any idea of why such a thing is supposed to be plausible. I might be in favor of such a thing too except I've never seen any evidence that Wenger would ever allow it.

    What we can do is can Wenger, take away his gate pass and change the door locks. Argue a severance package with his lawyers, and hire a new manager. That's what I favor. If we're not willing to do that, then we might as well let him continue his half-brilliant half-incompetent circus act.
     
  11. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If this is the case, you should be congratulating Wenger for the job he's done. Take away the profits from player transfers and we're broke at this point.
     
  12. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    The man's got an amazing eye for talent, but his commitment to players who are lost causes, and even extending their contracts, makes me mental.

    As much as I'm glad to admit I was dead wrong about Song, I was dead right about Almunia, Bendtner, Denilson, Cygan, Senderos, this list goes on and on.

    His desire for stability and to bring youth through at nearly all cost, coupled with the fact that we simply can't afford the big name players, leads to the situation we're in now.

    That said, I have no idea who his replacement could be.
     
  13. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    wasnt your name Senderos?
     
  14. antiwhinger

    antiwhinger Member

    Nov 1, 2008
    cambridge
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i really wonder when people bring up stuff like this.

    don't people understand that the whole business model of arsenal is predicated on spending very little money? if you sack wenger, who is going to make the current business model work? is there anybody else besides perhaps one of Wenger's underlings?

    people have to realize what comes first is the business plan. next comes the personnel to make it work. wenger is perfect for this very imperfect business plan.

    if you want change at arsenal, you have to change the business plan. you have to go the sugardaddy route or piling up debt route by gambling in the transfer market route. the latter has worked for spurs recently, but it has backfired for most clubs.

    the real problem is that wages have grown so far beyond commercial revenues, that being competitive without racking up debt requires us to rely on youth like denilson and not give up on them until it's absolutely clear that they will never make it and it also requires a minor miracle to happen every year.

    the Boss has made numerous mistakes. he could have bought better youth team players, he could have done this...and that....but the job that this business model requires of the manager is almost impossible for anyone to fullfill. and the only reason why it hasn't been ripped up already is that it has worked for like 15 years in a row.

    so fine, get rid of wenger...but unless the whole management ethos of the club changes, it's only going to get a lot, lot, lot worse.
     
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  15. ChapacoSoccer

    ChapacoSoccer Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The business model is predicated on having net positive transfer expenditures and the Champions league money and getting the bonus from finishing high in the EPL.

    If Arsenal can't get to the CL then its football operating profits will be quite small, perhaps negative. That breaks the business model. People are wondering if you can't get to net positive transfers by spending more and perhaps selling more. Our wage structure seems to be losing use money on the transfer side (Bendtner, etc.)
     
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  16. darcgun

    darcgun Member+

    Jan 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    lol... Yes, we have not won anything since 2005. Most in the press who cite this fail to realise that few clubs have won anything in that period. We always are maligned for this, one never hears a hack cite Liverpool as "bad" for not winning anything in a while.

    The hacks for some reason hold a grudge against the club, and always have done.
     
  17. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It hit me after reading Tim Stillman's column today, Everyone have lost their minds over these last two games. We lost two in a row and people want Wenger out, lol.

    thats why people like Steven Howard can troll like this and a lot of us bite.

    http://arseblog.com/2012/01/reaction-reaction-reaction/
     
  18. antiwhinger

    antiwhinger Member

    Nov 1, 2008
    cambridge
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    umm...that possibility has been around for 15 years, and it hasn't happened once. until it does happen don't expect a sudden change. the transfer funds tied up in an overpaid bendy on loan somewhere is a consequence of relying on youth so much and skimping on buying youth players (imagine that we had paid a bit extra and bought zlatan instead of bendy). the boss has been trying to sell guys like him for a while now. but at least they're worth something, and we can hope to get something for them in the summer. at other clubs those guys would have no transfer value at all.
     
  19. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The other thing is that winning brings in revenue. Finishing 3rd instead of 4th = more money. Semi-finals instead of quarter-finals = more money. Winning then brings more sponsorship money, merchandising money, and money on tours.

    Whoever runs Arsenal's finances doesn't seem to realize that you can make more money by increasing income, not just lowering expenses.
     
  20. darcgun

    darcgun Member+

    Jan 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Another thing is even if we finish 5th, so be it. It would be an easy chance to win the Europa League, and increase our tally of European trophies. Frankly, a club of our domestic, European, and now under Arsene global stature should have won more.

    To suggest it would damage us is bull. It hasn't damaged Spurs or Liverpool, as both now are challenging for top 4 spots. Both improved by still buying good players.
     
  21. mwojt21

    mwojt21 Member

    May 22, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree with this completely. Not only is the prestige for Europa League much less, so is the income generated by the competition. Significantly less.
     
  22. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Exactly. No one is thrilled about 2-4th, but to finish out of Champions League
    qualification would REALLY make things rough.
     
  23. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    but if we won something, then why would you care about the financial stuff?
     
  24. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    It was- mostly because I kind of look like him, at least someone told me I did.

    I dropped the name long after Wenger should have dropped him. :)
     
  25. mwojt21

    mwojt21 Member

    May 22, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because the Europa League is a Mickey Mouse competition. None of the big clubs take it seriously because it doesn't pay out anything remotely close to Champions League. All it does it add an extra midweek fixture that would wear out our players for making a run at the Premier League. You never hear players say they want to sign for a club because they're "Europa League Champions."
     

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