It's not just the trophy, though. If it were, I'd agree with you. And the first couple RMC games I watched, it was like "oh hey, it's Colorado, there's a fan trophy here, neat." But starting with the shorts stuffing, and increasing every year, there has been real vitriol between the two teams and the two fan bases. It's now transcended hating Mastroeni, but I think others are correct in saying that he provided the spark that's been built upon since then. It's been helped along by playoff spots, cup wins, last-minute heroics, and fan competition (that unfortunately has occasionally devolved into stupidity on both sides, but no rivalry would be complete without a couple of assholes taking it too far). Is it on the level of Barca-Madrid or Celtic-Rangers or Man U-City? Of course not, but I don't think anyone but you has ever suggested that anybody thinks it is. But as MLS teams go, I and many other fans thoroughly despise the Rapids, their players, their fans, and their entire organization. That, by definition, is a rivalry, regardless of whatever trophy (or lack thereof) is at stake.
Time for my 2 cents... Teams I hate: LA: bunch of prettyboy millionares HOU: Dirtbags CHV: Expansion Brothers and Dirty Players (Sorry Robin...) NY: See LA But when it comes to it... I hate Colorado more. It's a rivalry in my mind. And nothing you say or do wil change that
My original point wasn't that you guys can't consider it a rivalry. The point was that I didn't think it resonates with a large portion of the fanbase and that it's not widely adopted beyond the "hardcore" / "diehard" / whatever-you-want-to-call-us fans. I think we're splitting hairs a bit. I don't care at all, and have no problem, with the concept of contriving a rivalry - it can be fun and it's slowly building up steam. I personally don't get too worked up "hating" Colorado because I don't have much reason to other than someone keeps telling me to. The only time I've geniunely been pissed off at a Colorado-RSL game was the infamous short-stuffing incident and frankly, it came down to 2 guys who were doing it 50 feet away from me - Gargan and Mastroeni. I realized it was personal to those two guys when I saw Gargan playing for other teams and can't help not liking the guy. Same goes for Mastroeni (even when he wears the USMNT jersey) - I'm put off by him. Other than that, I actually admired the turnaround at Colorado by coach Smith and think highly of 3-4 of their players. We just haven't had enough contests on the field where it came down to the two of us vying for something big (sorry RMC, it's fun, but it's a token award). The reason LA and Dallas seem more of "rivals" to me is that competitively they've given us a harder time AND they've challenged us for trophies. We can't win in Dallas and they knocked us out of the playoffs with probably our best team ever (2010). We beat LA in MLS Cup (2009), competed down to the last day of the season for the SS (2010), and for much of 2011 were the two top teams (until we faded) ultimately meeting in the semi-final which was more competitive than the Cup final (2011). With Colorado we just don't have that kind of battling yet - even their 2010 Cup win was a bit of a fluke. RSL has played in the conference championship (MLS final 4) 3 of the past 4 years. I'm sorry, their fans are pretty weak. Their overall performance as a club is pretty weak (despite the one good run in 2010). They finally start to build something good there and they look like they are going to implode by dumping their coach. I just don't consider them much of a rival.
Well there were about 3 or 4 years where a playoff berth was on the line. Yura's equalizer in '08 was critical to us - led to RSL's first trip to the post-season, and devastating to them. And if we hadn't beat them in '09 we wouldn't have won MLS Cup because we wouldn't have made the playoffs. As far as the regular season, it doesn't get any bigger than that, does it? The problem has been that the two teams haven't met in the playoffs. If that happens, then this rivalry could suddenly get real.
Yeah, it was a big win... But it actually didn't mean any more than any of the other wins that season. Had we lost any of those other games, that game wouldn't have made the difference, points during the season are points. However, I get the dramatic nature around it but it was just as big as the game this year where we clinched the playoffs (whoever that was).
There's some validity to that. However, by that logic, none of the regular season would count as "big games". Therefore the only way to play a big game against your "rival" would be in the playoffs (or potentially CCL).
Is that 50 years from now or 50 years since the flying Dunseth and flag planting? These things do develop organically- you can't restrict them. We are full of ourselves and we try to impose our thoughts and feeling on one another. Or in the very least we try to show the merits of our bias. The whole discussion is a reflection of everyone's viewpoint. You say it contrived because is was discussed before teams even played once. I say it's an extension of Denver-hate that already existed. It tried to follow the crapids back in the 90s. It didn't work even though Myernick seemed like a nice enough guy. The Colorado Foxes (featuring Robin Fraser) were a better team in my mind. The crapids were lucky to not be in the Mutiny's boat. Broncos stink too. They were rivals because I offered my fanhood to them and they squandered it. So by 04 I was really ready to bag on them. A few of the personalities representing them on bigsoccer and dan's soccer zone helped ensure that I continued to think of them as idiots and wanted to beat them 6-0 every time. So I kind of feel... crapids= rivals Houston= dirt bags LA= stiff competition everybody else= teams in our league, let's beat them too.
so when Utah played BYU (in previous years) it meant nothing because, as you put it, that win/loss didn't mean any more than any of the other wins/losses that season. Right? Had Utah lost another game in the 2008 season, that game against BYU wouldn't have mattered...? aosthed, seriously, why are you so opposed to this rivalry?
something I find ironic in this: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1857527 many, if not all, of the rest of the league views RSL and the cRapids as rivals. Why the hell can't we?
I don't think you understand my posts. I'm not opposed, I'm somewhat ambivalent. I don't mind that it's contrived but I think some people get ahead of themselves in how universally adopted or intense they think it is. BYU v Utah is a rivalry developed on and off the field for a long time with a lot of history - virtually every fan of either team knows about it and, to at least some extent, identifies with the rivalry. Let's say UVU and SLCC decided they were going to regional rivals. The schools promoted it and some of their fans became really passionate about it - it will still likely take time for that rivalry to resonate with the majority of fans. RSL and Colorado are more like the UVU and SLCC example than the BYU and Utah example. It doesn't mean that "someday" RSL and Colorado cannot be like BYU v Utah but it does mean that the current rivalry may not be as intense or widespread. Rivalries (the good ones) need competitive history and drama. Right now diehard fans can point to 3-4 games that had some drama but it's still got a ways to go before it means a lot to me (and, I suspect, the overall fan base). Again, my point was that it tends to be overstated on these boards, I'm not saying it's bad... We just don't have to pretend it's more than it is (for now).
I don't think BigSoccer is representative of a majority of MLS or RSL fans, do you? I think it represents a small, relatively active and dedicated subset of the fan base. Of the millions of fans who attend MLS games and buy merchandise or watch it on TV, what percent actively post/discuss MLS online let alone BigSoccer?
RSL vs. Crapids is a rivalry. Is it up there with BYU-Utah? Obviously not. True rivalries are not contrived and happen organically taking on a life of their own. Rivalries also change especially when one team tends to win more than the other. The RSL-Crapids rivalry will benefit when one side or the other isn't winning 4 or 5 times in a row. The BYU-Utah rivalry is only a blood thirsty battle now because the victories for the most part have evened out. A look at the history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_War_(Utah_vs._BYU) shows that prior to 1993 one side or the other won in streaks that make a rivalry not much of a rivalry. Until 1993 BYU won 22 of 28. Many not even close. Prior to 1965 BYU only won 5 times going back to 1896. 5 times. That is not a rivalry. Simply because BYU and Utah have a history one could argue that the rivalry really only started in 1993 when both teams didn't really go into the "big" game knowing the probable outcome. Also, anyone that was around before the 1970's knows that the real rivalry was not BYU-Utah but Utah-Utah State. That was the game that actually mattered. With what is happening now with BYU and Utah you can kiss this rivalry goodbye anyway. Playing the game in September is a recipe for not playing at all. RSL-Crapids is no where near what the BYU-Utah rivalry is but it is a rivalry. Will it become a more heated and storied rivalry, as you point out and I agree, only time will tell. I think that odds are it will. I think contrived is a harsh description though. If it wasn't a rivalry, even in an embryonic state, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
After reading everything here I will agree that it's a rivalry. BUT... Years ago I drove down from NJ to Anapolis to watch BYU@Navy. Before the game all of the midshipmen were in formation on the field. They did the "Give me a B! Give me an R..." cheer. Then "What's that spell? Brigham Young." Then they tipped their hats and said "Hi!" Then they did the same for NAVY. But after "What's that spell?" it was "Navy! Go Navy! Beat Army! Go Navy! Beat Army!" That is a RIVALRY.
Nothing like the rivalries of college sports, particularly football. Georgia Tech has it's hatred of the University of Georgia inserted into two of its fight songs: 1) White and Gold, the entire song is about beating Georgia (played after every touchdown). 2) And, from the Ramblin' Wreck song, 2nd stanza (played after the extra point, and other times): And, finally, there is only one answer to this question on the Georgia Tech campus, Q: What's the good word? A: To hell with Georgia! Yes, I graduated from Georgia Tech.
I think any college rivalry will always be the best, because the attending crowd is young, drunk, and stupid. Here, it's only two out of three.
