the quintessential 2013 "do we REALLY need one of these" superdraft thread!

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by SJTillIDie, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

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  2. OWN(yewu)ED

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    YES! by golly yes we do! and for us draft nerds it will be the happiest and saddest superdraft thread we have seen in a long, long time. Sure we traded our first pick for Ballouchy who is probably a better player than anything we would get where we are picking, and sure we wont be picking until the end of the second round, but it is custom and tradition! we need this! Who could forget the joy of picking Ike Opara, or how absolutely livid we were when we picked up Garza (and soon after ate crow diligently), or picking ANOTHER goalkeeper apparently for no other reason than the lulz. I dont expect much interest this time around, but this thread is for the dedicated proud few!

    Now if we are able to keep our roster to quota minus Dawkins, i would be looking at a number four central defender. it was a forward but the MLS gods again smiled upon us in providing us with Tracy, but we have come pretty close on more than a few occasions this year to the bottom of the barrel with injuries and suspensions rolling out corrales-morrow-hernendez-beita without a viable central defense option on the bench.


    heres an early look at the prospects that could be available late second round
    http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/coll...genderId=m&periodId=14&seasonId=2012&nopage=1

    its got Kyle Venter chillin at 38 right there, a 6'4 central defender out of New Mexico. Considering mocks are already considering him a Gen Ad. and top 5 candidate that would be an absolute dream, but not realistic.

    Another option is left back Taylor Kemp as a number two behind Morrow because Corrales is almost done and if we win the cup could call it a day.

    or if we go with the Best Player Available model, and the Virginia forward Will Bates was a top pick before a knee injury, and if he is there still when we are picking, that is a place worth taking a risk on. Much like Ampai......at that point a player like that is worth taking a risk on. Just because Ampai didnt work out didnt make it a bad pick. And if god forbid someone in europe comes calling for Wondo, Will Bates looks like an even smarter pick.



    If we get someone who makes the roster, its a succcess. but who knows, we all remember where Morrow and Beita were picked in the superdraft........late 2nd round ;). and this is why we pay attention.
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  3. QuietType

    QuietType Member+

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    I agree - a central defender would be top of my list, followed by a central attacking mid, followed by a "big" forward.
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  4. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

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    Great thread!

    We need at least two good defender prospects in our camp this pre-season.

    Now whether we draft two, or find one or more elsewhere, I'm not going to quibble. We are thin on defenders, and this is almost certainly Ramiro's last season.

    We're going to have to wait and see who sticks and who bails on the club (or gets the boot) once the season is over. Right now, I'm think that I want to see the last of:
    • Ramiro
    • Gjoey
    • Ward
    • Khari

    That's going to free up some roster spots and some serious cash. We'll need to lay some raises on various players, but we should be able to absorb that.

    What we need is more defenders, and maybe some outside mids, depending on whether we lose Dawkins or not. Happily, the team have drafted well since our resurrection. So I expect more of that this time around.

    At least we don't have to worry about losing anyone to the stinking expansion draft.

    GO QUAKES!!!

    - Mark


  5. OWN(yewu)ED

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    I agree with that pretty much. I think left back depth is my number two but again, thats just petty stuff. If im picking i prefer hunting down a #4 center back, and those are plenty available and the most MLS ready field position as far as draft picks go.

    i agree that despite we have a lot of guys with versatility to play central attacking mid like Mehdi, it is somewhat curious how we didnt have more patience with Ampai. He was certainly surplus with Dawkins return, but why not stash him away on a USL or NASL team on loan for a season (i actually hope we do that with Hustedt next season btw). If i could have one back......it would be Ampai, i really wish we would have had the patience to develop him. It especially becomes urgent if Baca uses us as a springboard to the Mexican league, which is a distinct possibility. You know hes going to use the Champions League as an audition next season.
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  6. sportsfan-quakes

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    If Ward can come back healthy, I think he should be kept. He's cheap ($60k) and when he was healthy last year he was a decent backup. The big question is Opara - if he "graduates" from the Gen Adidas, then will he and the Quakes agree on a contract/salary or will Ike move on? And contrary to many, I think Corrales will be back next year and still provides decent depth at left back. So I don't agree that defense is the key place the Quakes need to build depth, it depends on what happens with Ward (health), and Opara and Corrales. I think they need to get a younger leftback who can be developed, maybe that's Suggs as he seems to be back with the team and training (he was on the sideline with the Quakes reserves yesterday when Wondo went over and celebrated his goal).

    It sounds likely that Dawkins is not back, and Ballouchy probably won't be recovered from his injury to play at the start of the season. It also seems likely that Khari won't be back, unless he agrees to a pretty big paycut. So that could really put the team weak in the midfield as far as depth. Also, while Wondo/Lenhart/Gordon are the best 3 forward group in the league, Wondo and Gordon will be "on the wrong side of 30" next year. The team really needs to get a couple of young forwards that they can develop. Dump Sercan (too old and not that good) and get a couple of guys in the draft or as free agents who can develop. Maybe Pizzaro is one of those guys, but he had a hard time staying healthy this year so it's hard to tell.

    Since a lot depends on which guys get re-signed, it's pretty difficult to predict what positions are "need" positions. But I would lean toward offensive minded midfielders and forwards, not defenders.
  7. OWN(yewu)ED

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    ah yes, and i brought up a proposition in the Trade Ideas thread id love to hear the opinions of you gentlemen on that addresses just that
  8. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

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    I agree, except that IF he can come back is a huge IF. I'm not sure they even know what's wrong with him. I feel for the guy, really. He's still pretty young, ought to have another five or six years of playing time in front of him, but he's probably done. Bummer.

    Ike will need to take a hefty pay cut. I think he will too. He needs to prove himself, and he's with a good organization, he comfortable with our team, and I'm pretty sure he'll get a shot to prove himself. So I'm expect Ike to return at a much reduced salary. (As with any guesses from this remote distance, anything and everything could change between now and the draft.)

    I hope you're wrong. Ramiro is past it, long past it. I like him, and I want him to remain with the club in some capacity or other, but not as a player.

  9. DotMPP

    DotMPP Good Luck Rafa

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    Wow Mark.. That quote looks like a State Machine design....
  10. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

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  11. OWN(yewu)ED

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    nope, sure isnt, thats what surprised me most. there wasnt even early on in scouting. was hoping some people would seperate but doesnt seem to be the case.

    With the center back prospects, we could trust Frank to look local as he has had the tendency to do in the past. I remember the epic "wtfs" when we drafted Beitashour, and i was one of them. that worked out pretty well.

    And Kemp is taking a tumble for the sports hernia. thats why i havent heard his name often this season. again, where we will be picking that is a plenty good spot to take a chance on a player like that. Late 2nd round is where you are allowed.....and even encouraged high risk-high reward picks

    and the site has a high opinion of Will Bates as well. if hes there as a BPA we gotta look at him thoroughly.
  12. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

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    Sorry, I messed up a quote tag and didn't take a look for a couple of hours, because I was busy working. :confused: So here it is, fixed.

    sportsfan-quakes:
    So I don't agree that defense is the key place the Quakes need to build depth, ... depends on ... Ward (health), and Opara and Corrales. ... need to get a younger leftback ... maybe that's Suggs as he seems to be back with the team...

    markmcf8:
    Going to have to agree to disagree here. We're short on defenders right now, and we're almost certain to lose Corrales at the end of the year. Also, I doubt that we'll get to keep Bernardez for very long. There's a chance he gets snagged by a wealthy club following the World Cup, or just gets old enough to retire. Bernardez is 30, Jason is 29 ... we need some guys in the pipeline who can replace them in the next couple of years.

    Also, we don't really have any backups at right or left back. Nah, we need to draft (or sign outside the draft) at last two or three defenders, and I'm hoping that Suggs is on that list.

    sportsfan-quakes:
    It sounds likely that Dawkins is not back, ... Ballouchy ... Khari ... So that could really put the team weak in the midfield as far as depth. Also, ... Wondo/Lenhart/Gordon ... Wondo and Gordon will be "on the wrong side of 30" next year. ... needs to get a couple of young forwards ... Dump Sercan ... Pizzaro ... it's hard to tell.

    markmcf8:
    OK, Wondo, Lionheart, and Flash are the best trio of forwards in the league. Plus, we have Diaz-Pizarro and Marcus Tracy. It wouldn't hurt to bring in another forward or two, but this isn't pressing, and I'm assuming that we drop Sercan, which we might not.

    For center mids ... Baca, Cronin, Ring, Ballouchy, and Jean Marc. That's really pretty damned good. Even if we take the view that Mehdi is going to play outside for us, as a straight up replacement for Simon, we're still in very, very good shape at center mid.

    sportsfan-quakes:
    Since a lot depends on which guys get re-signed, it's pretty difficult to predict what positions are "need" positions. But I would lean toward offensive minded midfielders and forwards, not defenders.

    markmcf8:
    Nah. Defenders and outside mids will be our positions of need, my friend.

    GO QUAKES!!

    - Mark
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  13. OWN(yewu)ED

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    so, looks like we are picking at 33 now. We have found starters on defense in that territory before. Im assuming we would have to go for a central defender to push Ike and Hernendez next year. Its the most MLS ready position, im hoping we can find someone good there.
  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

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    Any prospects on the horizon?
  15. OWN(yewu)ED

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    all eyes on the central defenders.....we want cerebral more than athletic (see ike opara). If we can get both, then badass (see bernardez)
  16. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

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    if corrales retires and ward is cut we might need LB depth as well. but those are very tough to find... maybe try another morrow experiment - pick a fast left footed midfielder and try to convert him.
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  17. bsman

    bsman Member+

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    I disagree. Omar Gonzelbow aside, getting a quality central defender who is immediately ready to start in MLS from the draft is about as likely as finding a c-note in a skid-row dumpster. I would think that the saga of Ike is a cautionary tale. I think if we (by we, I mean JD) believe that we need another quality central defender, we will need to trade for him or find him overseas.
  18. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue kick. score. twerk. Staff Member

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    Sorry for any confusion but seemed silly to have two adjacent threads on the same topic. Both have been merged into a super superdraft thread.
  19. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

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    Ike's ups and downs are more due to bad luck (injury) than any substantive problem with getting defensive talent from the draft.

    Here are some late 2nd round picks from the past few years:
    2012 #35: Ray Gaddis
    2012 #37: Warren Creaville
    2011 #24: Stephen McCarthy
    2011 #31: Chris Korb
    2010 #25: Seth Sinovic
    2010 #28: Justin Morrow
    2010: #30: Steven Beitashour
    2010: #39: Chris Schuler
  20. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

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    There are only 19 teams in the league, so we'll be picking at 15 at the worst, unless they go by season record and don't count the playoffs, in which case we'd still pick at 19. How do you get #33? Did we give away our first round pick for this year?

    In any case, yes, we've found decent players much lower in the draft than many other teams. That's good work by JD and Frank (and the rest of the coaching staff).

    Right now, we still have a bunch of young players on the team and a couple of young guys developing, and our academy, and some guys we can trade, cut, retire, so ... I'm not very worried about the coming draft. First, I think that JD and Frank and the guys will find a good player or three. Second, we're under the salary cap now. Third, we're going to have more cap room because we're almost certain to ditch all or some of:
    • Corrales
    • Khari
    • Ward
    • Gjoey
    • Sercan
    That gives us some room right there. Do we get to keep Dawkins? or is he gone? Does he want more money than he's worth? How much can we reduce Ike's salary? Or do we trade him? We might be able to trade Khari, but more likely not.

    And, we get some extra allocation ducats because we're going to be in the Champions League!! Woo Hoo!! So that will cover us.

    So while we might not get a lot of good draft picks this coming draft, we will be in a position to sign a player or three from overseas. So I'm not really worried.

    GO QUAKES!!

    - Mark
  21. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

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    I bet we can find a left footed defender, maybe not very highly regarded, but ...

    We have Morrow and Beta now, with Jed Zayner behind them. So we have time to bring along new young defenders. At this level, outside players should be able to play with both feet. So even a good right back prospect would be alright, provided he can play with both feet. (I'm naturally left footed, and I had no problem learning to play both outside mid and defender spots equally badly.)

    Even if we pickup some guy undrafted, if he's got the tools and the brains, we have good players and good coaches now. We ought to be able to bring him along. One thing we need for certain is more patience with the younger players. It's worked out well with Beta, Morrow, and Baca. Patience is a good thing. We have the tools and coaches necessary to mold young players into the kinds of guys we want. I'd even look at community college players, because you can get them a year or two younger and thus have more time to train them into what you want.

    GO QUAKES!!

    - Mark
  22. OWN(yewu)ED

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    yes, agreed completely excellent post. We of all team should know the value of the draft in adding contributors on the backline. I LOVED Gaddis last year, i felt he was Morrow 2.0 , and torwards the tail end of the season Union look like they got themselves a player.

    and to answer Mark's question, i believe we traded our first to RBNY for Bellouchy. So we only have one draft pick as a result of that. Im fine with that trade still because if we lose Baca to the free market next year, and i think we will, we instantly have a CAM problem, however i keep reminding people Bellouchy played himself a bit of CAM in his day, a great versatile player we got there.
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  23. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

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    anyone watched georgetown yet this year?

    http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/mls-prospecting:-week-12_aid27984

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  24. OWN(yewu)ED

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    i also like Taylor Kemp,hes falling because of injury, but late 2nd is a plenty appropriate place to take a risk on a left back like him.
  25. Albany58

    Albany58 Member

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    I agree. And not getting enough playing time.

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