Thank you sir. That makes sense and explains how and why evra would interpret it as "********ing hell". A very common term in England, less common in America, but still understood by both cultures. If I get kicked by someone in a game, it makes sense if I said, "********ing hell, why did you do that" or some variation.
Knew about the KKK and TN, but until now wrongly thought it was in Lynchburg (the home of Jack Daniels) and that's how the town got it's name. Was actually somewhere called Pulaski. There were originally a number of black skinheads until it got hijacked/taken over. The scene came out of types of music you quoted in your other post, benni. Haven't a clue where.
Now that more details have been released, I think it's clear that Evra said little more than anyone would during such an altarcation. There have been all manner of suggestions that Evra made an anti-South American slur, a slur against Suarez's family, a slur against his sister, non of which were substantiated. If Suarez and Liverpool truly felt they were in the right here, they had full recourse to issue formal complaints about anything Evra might have said and to appeal against the decision. Indeed, given the amount of spouting off they've done throughout this, you'd think there would be a strong enough principle at stake to risk a ban extension (which if it was anything like as tight a decision as they claim, wouldn't happen because the appeal wouldn't be deemed frivolous, even if unsuccessful). The fact is, the team and player did neither. They've taken cheap shots in the media, but not taken the avenues open to them to back up their words. So whatever your take on Evra or what he said, if he's got away with anything at all (I'd dispute that given the subsequent LFC smear campagn), it's on the heads of LFC & co.
@ barroldinho - very thought out response. i think though that the FA are intent to make a point and are stubborn in their view to punish Suarez (rightly so) but i do understand and appreciate your point. In terms of the translation, it does not matter how Evra said it. It only matters how Suarez viewed it. If Suarez viewed that as a direct insult to his family, then he had a right to retaliate. Lets assume Suarez was right and that he truly did not mean to offend Evra and the term was used affectionately (forget about if you beleive him or not) would using that language to Evra have been okay then? No in my mind. I am simply applying the same rule to Evra.
I did say on both this and the Liverpool board that if Evra was shown to have said a derogatory word for "South American", he deserved the same punishment as Suarez. The trouble is, I don't know what he said because Suarez chose not to report it. Was he trying to be a "bigger man" and avoiding a tit-for-tat argument, or was he simply aware that his counterclaims were baseless? After seeing what was reported, I'd have to go with the latter. Also, if Liverpool are accurate in their claims that it was all hearsay and the FA left things out of their report, surely it's nothing short of imperative for the good of the game, that they fight he decision by any and all means necessary. Again, I suspect that their decision not to is based on a lack of foundation. All their other noise is an attempt to save face after some woeful PR.
The original Skinhead movement is as far removed from the KK as is possible to be. One was inspired by the inspiration of Jamaican music and a rejection of the white dominated mod movement and the other is a disgusting racist ideology. I know our two sets of fans are meant to hate each other but its pretty petty too suggest the above statement especially as the people from Liverpool and Manchester, football aside, are very very similar.
Racism, unfortunately, is all about perception. You can say something in jest, but if the person who it's aimed at takes offence, then you should issue an apology for any misunderstanding. From what I have read of the report, Evra did admit to calling Suarez "south american" or something to that effect. The problem was that it wasn't aimed as an insult, and Suarez didn't take it as one.
Buju called it - Everyting wha gwaan a farrin, di yaad man get di blame! (This is aimed at the select few who undersstand Jamaican dialect and the song in question by the artist quoted) Otherwise carry on!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyT2q2VGSUQ"]Gal Dem Ah Talk(Clean) - YouTube[/ame] All yuh name stink ah road.
----------------------------------------------- It was translated by panel's language experts taking account of nuances that Pool fans have been wrtting about: "********ing Hell" This is just about right. Your translations both a and b are closer literal translation which makes it look what Evra said into some big insult. In US and UK we use the word ******** freely, direct translation of this word in many languages ia viewed as vile and threatening statement. I think the actual literal translation is Sister's ******** (You are your sister's ********). In south Asia the corresponding term is "ben chod", and in central asia it is "Khar Koste". While literal meaning of both is sister's ********; however, it is not viewd as an insult among most working class people.
********ing hell has nothing to do with behan chood which is in urdu or kher kos de which is persian and are two different words of which first meaning slob and other slut. And both of them are insults, probably not Kher though.
Yes I do, kia haal hain tumharay, behan urdu ka lafz hai aur chood to sirf slang hai kisi zaban say nahin hai.
Mein theek hoon......Haan waise behan chood to aapas mein yahan log bolte hi hain..Its not like they exactly mean it anyway.....
I speak persian, Khar Koste measn SIster's ********, and it is used often and it is considered crude, low class, BUT MUCH LIKE WHAT EVAR SAID it is more of figure of expression like whast the ********. Bwehn chod also carries much the same meaning among setain classes I speak Urdu Baluchi, Farsi and Trukish. The point is Sister's ******** in many languages is NOT an insult to someones sister, it i figure of expression that is crude and low class, but rarely any one in India or Iran would say "what did you call myus sister?" At worst some might warn you that they do not like this type of language in addressing them, but as someone who lived in those area among working lower classes (Sauarz claims to be one) anyone who take too much offenses in this would likely to get more grief. Khar means sister. koste means cnut. So clearly you don't know what you are talking about, Yes they are insults if you just go to someone and say it, but in arguments and on going tussles, they are often used and are NOT taken as an offense to complain about, if you do, you will be laughed at. Khur means Donkey and something different altogther and is used for calling someone stupid or an idiot.
Sister is not Khar, its khuhar, kh is pronounced is like J in Spanish so its something like Khuahar, which is actually خواهر if you understand the letters. When we say Khaahar Kosdeh we mean you sister is a whore not your sister's ********. I am not even going to list the languages I can speak.
The word for donkey is khr which is carried into urdu and joined to make words likes khr-dimagh which means an obstinate/stubborn person, nimma being an india would have heard it. bazeechay atfal hai dunya meray agay hota hai tamasha shb o roz meray agay
Interesting that Liverpool have been so qwuick to issue an apology to Tom Adeyemi, of Oldham, in the wake of the unfortunate abuse aimed at him on Friday. Strange that they are so quick to issue apology on this, before an investigation has commenced, yet were so reluctant tp issue an apology to Evra, Suarez having been found guilty of recially motivated language by an independant panel of judges.
I have to say that this debate unfortunately sounds like the Scousers defence of Suarez. Even if the use of the phrase usually means "Oh bugger", if it contained a reference to Sister, it could be taken as such so we can have few complaints if it was misconstrued. Having said that, while insulting someone's sister is obviously crude and offensive, (even if you clearly don't know her and therefore can't put any substantial meaning behind it) the repercussions are substantially less far reaching than using a blanket, racial slur. There after all is no "Kick Family Members Genitalia Out of Football" campaign.
There is no debate actually, I dont know what he said and if he referenced to somebody sister in that way, he is an idiot period. Anyway, what Lb do people want to replace him, I cant think of any.
Fábio Coentrão was always the one I wanted, but that ship has definitely sailed. Now I don't have a front runner in my preferences, what about that young Spanish Lad we were meant to be looking at that Barca wanted too?
Jordi Alba ? Who plays for Valencia, he is 5 7 former Barca graduate and most likely will join them again when they will come looking.