The Oscar Thread

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by spot, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. COphysicsDave

    COphysicsDave Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    Centennial State
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be honest, it's nice to see the team have a defined direction. I know that what Jason is saying is essentially what Hinchey said way back in January; however at that time I was basically chalking it up to PR buzzwords and spin. Throughout the season they have tried a lot of different things and it was hard to see commitment to anything since the results have largely been so poor. However, hearing that this is a long term thing, and that people actually care enough to have a mission (a mission besides the bottom line) makes me feel a tiny bit better. I agree with DavidJames in that you can keep to a mission with different more competent individuals in key spots though. I realize that likely we're stuck with the current setup for at least another year and half, I'd just like to see some honest to goodness improvement (maybe give Hill a start?).
     
  2. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Denver CO
    It makes me feel like they are carving out a longer horizon for themselves and trying trick people into ignoring current sub-subpar results. I find it insulting. What's the old joke? Year 16 of a 19 year plan. Wouldn't it be nice in sports to have a 20 year job? To have a fan base that cares less about results? I feel like I'm looking a lawn that sucks but being told that the roots are going in nice and deep.

    I would feel 100 million trillion times better if they were committed to results. IMO this is what sets long-term winning teams apart from long-term losing teams. Its poor strategy on the part of all KSE teams and likely just spin, born out of fear of having to spend to results the way the Yankees and Galaxy do. I'm not buying it. Tell me that you want to win. That is all that I want to hear. You want to win and losing six in a ********ing row is not acceptable because we are committed to winning.
     
  3. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Am I the only one who thinks they are not playing the style of ball they claim to be bringing here?

    We just have a modified version of GS ball that has now regressed back to RW cross attacks exclusively except for a few oddman counters we get a game.
     
  4. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    My hunch is they are doing the best they can with what they've got.
     
  5. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK but that will just make next season a "start over" instead of getting the play (Tactics) and players going this year. I understand with Casey here the cross will be a weapon but it, lately, really is all we have this year.

    Where is the immediate (defensive) ball pressure on turnovers then? That can be done regardless, but pretty much has completely stopped months ago.
     
    22SteveD repped this.
  6. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    Yeah, I expect a lot of changes for 2013.
    You've got me there :D
     
  7. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don't see much in the way of style, but I'm deluded by mis-remembering.

    I reckon the Rapids have some major changes to make, and I reckon a few are...

    • Trade JL for somebody who has a short game. Nick LaBrocca's a better fit for the "style", maybe not him, but tidy with the ball, good at showing, able to keep it moving with one touch passing. JL's mind tells him to switch away from traffic, every time.
    • Be happy to have the cap relief Pablo and Mullan will provide. It's a tougher call for Mullan than one might think. For my money, he's been the most consistent reliable brain-fart free Rapids players of the year.
    • Trade Omar for somebody whose play-making doesn't rely on pace. We need to discover the next Jaime Moreno (everybody in MLS does). Can Castrillon play that role as a forward, I haven't seen quite the same ball control.
    • Decide if a target forward really is how the team will be attacking. Casey may not fit if the team steps further away from counter-attacking.
    • A new center back. Whatever Moor/Wynne had is gone. At their salaries and with a likely replacement costing as much or more, one of them should be gone.
    Thing is, re-signings suggest that it isn't e personnel matter, unless the re-signings are strategic with an eye to having players tied to MLS.
     
    22SteveD and DavidJames repped this.
  8. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, considering every player you mentioned moving has been re-signed in the last year and a half to multi-year deals except Casey, I don't see a lot of that happening.
     
  9. pdid10

    pdid10 Member+

    Aug 8, 2008
    Boulder
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    It's nice that these guys are thinking of the club top down, but if you cant even put together a good season, do you deserve to restructure the whole organization. Bottom line is the OP and Bravo need to win first and shake things up second.
     
  10. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    If you win, why would you shake things up*?

    *Hoping to avoid a rehash of the GS issues.
     
  11. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems like a right path/wrong path sort of question, which is really a gut feeling. Somebody always thinks the grass is greener on the other guys pitch.

    I'm not convinced that the Rapids were heading down a dead-end before, and I'm not convinced that they're now heading down their road to Damascus.

    It feels more like wandering, but with a lot of promises that there's milk and honey out there somewhere.

    The new experiment doesn't really have a precedent in MLS. I can't think of an MLS team that has started with a plan for playing style and managed to turn an established organization based upon it.
     
  12. commercecity

    commercecity Member

    Oct 8, 2007
    Commerce City, CO
    I have had a sinking feeling all along that it can't be done on the league's salary cap with no additional spending for DPs.
     
  13. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    Fort Collins, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not saying we will be this successful, but I think we know of several clubs outside of MLS that have pursued a path of refining the youth system and building from within and have been very successful doing so. To me the two obvious examples are Barcelona and Ajax. I actually do like the idea that the club is focusing on youth development and if they do it correctly we will start to see positives from this. I think the problem was that they tried to institute the style they want to promote to the youth right away with the senior team rather than waiting for more of these youth players along with additional signings to arrive that were comfortable with the system.

    You could argue that Alex Ferguson went through the same issues at United as well. He came in and focused on the youth system too and in his first year they only finished 11th in 86-87 after finishing 4th the previous year. They then finished 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th, 2nd, and then 1st in 92-93. They had to go through some rough patches, but the commitment to youth paid off in the years following as Fergie's Fledglings eventually became the backbone of the team and after finishing 6th in 90-91 they haven't been lower than 3rd.

    Would this run have been so successful without Ferguson, probably not, but you would have to think that those youth players that they were committed to developing would have still brought the club success eventually. The key in all examples was that they became devoted to building a quality youth system and there was stability somewhere at the top level that kept that goal. For that desire I do applaud Hinchey and Bravo.

    I do wonder if Pareja would have tried to implement the 4-3-3 so quickly if he had known Pablo was going to be out the majority of the season. To me he was going to be the main key in making the 3 man midfield work through his play but also through his leadership on the practice field pushing players to adapt to their new roles.
     
  14. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From other sports we know trade value is higher for guys under " control" for years then FA at season end.

    I think both Casey and Mullan have a place in the new style but maybe for Mullan at new position.

    Rapids have always been great at talking a good game, but seldom do their actions follow their mouths. If they did we would see them trying to improve team this summer window like the rest of MLS.

    Really don't see the rapids in Denver in 10 years based on ownership not giving a dam and the resulting poor attendance. Maybe Randy Lerner will scoop them up and move to NYC so MLS gets its 2 teams in NY dream they have.
     
  15. crazyjon85

    crazyjon85 Member

    Jan 12, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  16. COphysicsDave

    COphysicsDave Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    Centennial State
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately, I'd say that there is at least a decent chance of this happening with the way the league is growing in terms of attendance numbers and payroll. The Rapids are in danger of being left behind.
     
  17. commercecity

    commercecity Member

    Oct 8, 2007
    Commerce City, CO
    I'd say we are behind already, but we do have company. (Revs, Chivas USA, Crew, at times Dallas come to mind.)
     
  18. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Denver CO
    I believe the chances are much greater that you see teams 24-30 first.
     
    GoRapids and Jasonma repped this.
  19. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know everybody gets a warm fuzzy feeling when they imagine a strong academy, but can somebody please remind me what exactly that has to do with the coach's utter ineptitude with the senior team?

    We've always been behind. This shouldn't be news to anyone.
     
    jayd8888 repped this.
  20. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    Fort Collins, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It means they will be taking a big picture perspective and won't let the microcosm of a 6 game losing streak or a struggling season to cause them to fire someone they hired with long term intentions. Now if the losing streak would have kept going or if we go on another long losing streak the pressure will begin to build and the big picture will begin to focus on the small picture, but it is going to take a lot.

    I admit, that at this point I see the situation for what it is and I know it isn't going to change anytime soon and typically stability is a good thing, so I am willing to ride things out for the rest of the year and probably part of next year. It's easier to just accept it and give it a shot rather than get all worked up about it when you can't change it anyway.

    (edited for grammar mistakes)
     
    COMtnGuy repped this.
  21. railwaystand

    railwaystand Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    This surely just means the three of them have got themselves jobs for the long term and it doesnt matter how bad it gets or how long a bad streak lasts it will always be under the mantra that "its the long term" They are saying to sack OP you have to sack his boss and his bosses boss, were stuck with this, we could lose 15 games and they can get away with the magic trick and selling it to people by saying "its the long term"....talk about a "the emperer has no clothes" scenario....they have created a situation where no-one is accountable, I mean good on them, a secure job in this economy is a great thing, pity about the team though.
     
    Quinn 33 and COphysicsDave repped this.
  22. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    Wow, your reading between the lines is quite remarkable.

    The world really is coming to and end.
     
  23. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder if there will be a wave of bitter disappointment in about twelve months?
     
  24. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't disagree, but I've my doubts about the applicability to MLS.

    Even if it is applicable I don't think the Rapids are the MLS proxy of the teams mentioned. Where's the successful youth strategy of Spurs or Newcastle or West Ham? In there worst years Ajax, Barca, and Man U still obtain heights the majority of other clubs must envy.

    It's a bold experiment, that has not, of yet, beer boldly pursued.
     
  25. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Denver CO
    It is sports so, its 50/50.
     

Share This Page